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I’m Breaking Up with the West


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Home Forums Campfire Editor’s Roundtable I’m Breaking Up with the West

Viewing 18 posts - 51 through 68 (of 68 total)
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  • #3730404
    W I S N E R !
    Spectator

    @xnomanx

    We are not making intelligent choices.

    On a recent overnight I was camped on an overlook in the front country with a view of Los Angeles, lights stretching from horizon to horizon…

    Please excuse where my mind wanders when viewing scenes like this:

    4,000,000 people using 128oz. of fresh water to flush ~8oz. of urine down the drain an average of ~6 times a day…every day. Forever.

    Our wanton waste is staggering when you start running the numbers…There has got to be a better way.

     

    #3730406
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    nice view

    amazing how you can get to wilderness so close to Los Angeles

    I sometimes don’t flush after urinating.  Especially if I expect a repeat in the near future.  Several urinations for one flush

    #3730409
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    I would hope that most Californians have a brick in their toilet tank, or something to reduce the amount of water in each flush. And yes, I don’t flush after every pee. It’s not so bad.

    As Craig says, we’re going to have to change behavior. That’s not so bad either. We’re going to have to give things up if we’re going to address global warming. This last is going to make us give a lot up whether we will or not. Easier to do it on our own terms as much as possible.

    We’re having an atmospheric river pass through as I write. Pretty impressive!

    will winter never end?

    #3730414
    BlackHatGuy
    Spectator

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    I think it’s pretty obvious that we’re not going to change behavior in a majority of people. So what then?

    #3730472
    AK Granola
    BPL Member

    @granolagirlak

    Enjoy what’s left! I wish there was more I could do for the next generation though.

    #3730488
    obx hiker
    BPL Member

    @obxer

    using 128oz. of fresh water to flush ~8oz. of urine down the drain an average of ~6 times a day…every day. Forever.  ??

    Probably worse than that. The current LA County requirement (since 2016) is 1.28 gallons per flush or 160 oz. I’m sure many if not most toilets in LA County pre-date that requirement and possibly use several hundred ounces (3 gal is 384 oz.) a tricking leaky toilet flush flapper valve will lose several thousand per day; so if you hear a little water tinkling flowing noise…… ! Adds up to BIG numbers pretty fast!

    #3734081
    Ryan C
    BPL Member

    @radio_guy

    Locale: United States

    Typically I do not participate on forums as much as I used to. But this article, even if not the typical gear/educational/technical nature, certainly hits home.

    Years back I had the privilege of experiencing and eventually calling Alaska home for a while. Life circumstances had me move on but it is always still “home” in my heart. Unfortunately, over the years I could see the changes a warming trend had brought. When I went back “home” for a visit, that summer experienced one of the largest (lighting caused) wildfires that area had seen in years. It literally burnt up the wild places I frequented in my “back yard”. I had tears in my eyes seeing those forest and mountains on fire knowing they would most likely NEVER be the same in my lifetime, even if I moved back “home”. May sound awkward, but I did not break up with Alaska – circumstances made it break up with me.

    Now that I am stuck in the mid-west with nothing remotely as good as the West or Alaska, much of my personal energy is spent trying to figure out ways to experience it before all the trees are burned or destroyed by insects, too dry to find water, or too smoky to breath.

    And yes, those memories made “out west” will certainly reverberate in your mind for years to come if you move back east. Alaska still resonates within me even though I know it would not be the same.

    #3734086
    Marcus
    BPL Member

    @mcimes

    Somewhat related – farming uses 80% of water in california.  The farm reckoning is just beginning. People are a much smaller issue, though we should try to reduce our usage as much as we can.

    “More than nine million acres of farmland in California are irrigated, representing roughly 80% of all water used for businesses and homes.”

    https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/

    #3742549
    Barbara O’Donnell
    BPL Member

    @bodonnell

    Come up to Alaska for what you seek. You are welcome here, but you may end up in a cabin without running water. Trail hiking is easy by comparison. I enjoyed your discussion and I wish you and your family well, which ever path you take.

    #3742561
    HkNewman
    BPL Member

    @hknewman

    Locale: The West is (still) the Best

    The most recent realtor stats have more Americans continuing to move to the Sunbelt, like this 2019 (pre-COVID) article mentions:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/439561-more-americans-are-moving-mostly-to-sun-belt-suburbs?amp

    Updated for late 2021,  I saw Florida had the most demand (top 4 of rental markets).  Not much year long backpacking but there’s planes, trains, and automobiles.

    Southern California was up there, then Phoenix, Austin, and Las Vegas.   Probably a combination of jobs and not having to put up with winter.  This even affects “secondary” markets like Albuquerque and Fresno, though people have moved internally too (from California to Arizona or to Albuquerque because San Diego has gotten too hot/want to see 4 seasons).

    Alaska

    To be fair, I’ve known some from the Southwest move up north (from Arizona to Alaska …. or California to Minneapolis) for various reasons = water + cost of living, but still need to heat the home, etc..

    #3742572
    Ratatosk
    Spectator

    @ratatosk

    I thought that was a great article.

    I was born with crap lungs and Covid didn’t make them any better, so I’ll stay in Virginia, but even our one-week-a-year of trout fishing out west has taken casualties these past few years. Large, very occultish companies have bought a massive amount of land and housing here over the past five years, betting that climate change will force people back east, and it’s looking like they’ll make a mint.

    #3745496
    obx hiker
    BPL Member

    @obxer

    This article in today’s NYT. I think you can read a couple articles per month without a subscription.

    Some observations about the tangential impacts and sort of multiplier effects of extended dry periods as well as observations about how the dry periods make big rain events a bigger problem. One problem triggers a chain of problems.

    I’m a scientist in California: Here’s what worries me most about the Drought

    #3745516
    Tom K
    BPL Member

    @tom-kirchneraol-com-2

    Too many people. Simple as that.  More than once it has occurred to me that OP has it backwards:  The West is breaking up with us.  We’re too high maintenance for any reasonable environment to put up with us for very long.  Gonna be a nasty divorce.

    #3745552
    obx hiker
    BPL Member

    @obxer

    Just more gobsmackingly obvious in the west. It’s happening everywhere.

    #3745556
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    Too many people who won’t accept limits. U.S. folks especially think they have a divine right to instant gratification and all the amenities 24/7.

    One benefit of backpacking is learning how to be very happy while carrying a minimum of ‘things’. It doesn’t take that much to be safe, warm, comfortable and fed. Meanwhile, the world opens up with your larger self and there it is! Nature revealing its secrets.

    #3745557
    Tom K
    BPL Member

    @tom-kirchneraol-com-2

    “Just more gobsmackingly obvious in the west. It’s happening everywhere.”

    True enough, but some places are in a better position to mitigate the worst effects, at least temporarily.  Canada and the PNW come to mind.  But in the end, you’re on the mark.  It’s gonna be a nasty divorce for humanity at large.  I find myself wondering how many will survive, and at what level of civilization.  It’s not just climate change directly, but mass migration and the wars it will lead to, opportunistic pathogens, etc.  In the end, should the worst come to pass, I have placed my faith in the resilience of life at much lower levels of complexity, where the ability to adapt to rapidly changing, extreme conditions will provide an opportunity for life to evolve again in the direction of ever more complex organisms.  Hopefully with more benign results next time around.  In the meantime, I still manage to find more than enough natural beauty to immerse myself in up here in the PNW to keep me from even thinking about a divorce.

     

    #3745572
    W I S N E R !
    Spectator

    @xnomanx

    Too many people who won’t accept limits.

    This is the crux of it, and likely always will be.

    So how far do the limits go? Who sets them? And who enforces them?

    I wonder about the extent we are an animal hardwired to resist limits in the first place. The tension between our biology and intellect are…well, the ageless story of all religion and philosophy.

    We’ve all likely seen examples of communities of like-minded people go to pieces, even descend into outright violence, over perceived inequity…even if the inequity is as small as who always eats two extra bites of bread. Try and manage the behavior of a creature that operates like this on a global civilization scale.  Yikes. It’s almost a wonder we’ve lasted so long.

    Is membership in an affluent society that has strategically locked down its privilege the best we can hope for? Hasn’t that always been the goal of the family unit, the tribe, the village? And ultimately, maybe, the affluent break off a few crumbs for the less fortunate masses to make themselves feel good without actually giving anything real up? (The extent to which making sure your neighbors are reasonably well fed- lest they come for what you have- is actually a survival strategy is another topic entirely). Fast-forward to 2022: So you ride a bike, eat a little less sushi, and change your lightbulbs. Because make no mistake, any “limits” or sacrifices the average American thinks they’re making to save the world still keep them comfortably in the top 1%.

    Long live CHAFF.

     

    #3745807
    Tom K
    BPL Member

    @tom-kirchneraol-com-2

    Random musings of an ageing CHAFFista:

    “So how far do the limits go? Who sets them? And who enforces them?”

    The Ultimate Reality, aka Mother Nature, in the vernacular.

    “Is membership in an affluent society that has strategically locked down its privilege the best we can hope for?”

    As long as we are born into that society when it is on top of the heap, as my generation and the one that succeeded it were.  The situation has been deteriorating strategically ever since, relative to the rest of the world, and domestically regarding the fraction of our affluent society that gets to enjoy the fruits of said privilege.  Timing is everything.

    “The tension between our biology and intellect are…well, the ageless story of all religion and philosophy.”

    In simplified form an epitaph for the human race?  So much knowledge;  so little wisdom.

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