How do Goretex socks fit in a sock system?

[Terran Terran]

*water bags were made of flax canvas, not cotton.

[Bill Reynolds]

I’ve always thought the Rocky socks were supposed to go next to your feet not over the wool sock.

[Jerry Adams]

” “water taken from skin not sweat (insensible sweat), stops”

Please… what is “water ‘taken’ from skin” ??? I don’t understand what that means…”

I think what he’s saying is that if it’s humid (clammy) next to the skin, then your skin will stop insensible sweat

If it’s not humid next to the skin, then you will constantly have a small amount of insensible sweat.  Over many nights in your sleeping bag in arctic conditions, the sleeping bag will accumulate moisture which freezes

I think maybe the reason for wearing goretex socks is to stop this insensible sweating which would prevent your outer socks from getting wet

I wonder if anyone has done an experiment – one foot with goretex sock under wool sock, the other foot not, which foot is more comfortable after a day of hiking?

[Michel S]

From the December 6th newsletter (and I’ve posted this a few comments back as well): “Waterproof socks create a semi-permeable vapor barrier microclimate over your insulating (e.g., wool) sock”.

 

So no, the goretex sock goes over the insulating sock. Jerry above also assumes that the insulating sock is the outer sock. It’s not.

[Jerry Adams]

ahh… thanks, I was responding to the previous post

I’m just trying to figure this out, not to prove anyone right or wrong by the way

if the goretex is outside the socks then the microclimate will be more humid, the socks will be wetter which contradicts the idea it’s keeping your feet dry

I can see how this might work – if the humidity reduces insensible sweat it would help.  This sweat will eventually be evaporated which will make your feet colder.  Less sweat will make your feet warmer.  Maybe it doesn’t matter that the socks are damper.

the experiment of one foot with goretex, the other without goretex would be interesting

 

[Geoff Caplan]

I’m with Brad W

In theory, WP/B socks should be the ideal solution. There should be enough temperature differential to drive out your sweat, so provided they stay waterproof they should keep your feet relatively dry.

But I’ve tried a couple of brands inside my breathable trail shoes, and both times the membranes failed within hours.

So I fell back on a low tech plastic bag vapour barrier. Inner layer an insulating sock, then the bag, then a liner sock to keep everything in place. Tucking the tops under my gaiters prevents incursion from above.

This has worked well for me in two scenarios – walking for miles through freezing bog on Dartmoor, and walking in snow and ice. My feet stay comfortable even in -30C windchill.

The downside, as Brad W points out, is that you have to keep moving. The insulating layer is warm but damp, so it would cool down with a prolonged stop. I prefer to keep plodding on, so this has never been an issue for me. I carry a spare pair of dry warm socks for emergency scenarios.

[Murali C]

I carried Rocky Gore tex socks while hiking the PCT-Washigton section to keep my feet dry in rain and forgot to take it off after rain had stopped. After a few days of this, this has become my permanent layering system everywhere – even in hot Arizona, Colorado etc (I have 2000 miles with this setup). I wear Gore-tex trail runners – La Sportiva Lycan GTX and then a injinji and over the injinji, the Rocky Gore-tex socks. My feet don’t sweat or become hot. At the end of the day, when I remove my socks – my feet are baby clean – no need for washing my feet. My socks are also clean – no grimy junk that otherwise usually coats the socks – that is socks are still soft and pliable – not stiff from sweat/grime etc. And of course, my feet are very dry in all kinds of rain/muddy terrain. I still have two pairs of Rocky gore-tex socks – will have to look for alternatives once these die…

[Arthur]

Murali.  I am in your camp.  I wear “waterproof”  running shoes in the desert.  Keep my feet and socks clean and not hot.  I wear regular running shoes in the mountains with water.  The gortex shoes leak 2 miles from the trailhead anyway and they hold water when I walk thru streams more than 3 inches deep.  I gave up on water crossing shoes years ago.

[Greg Pehrson]

…the shoes are WP/B, so the shoes shouldn’t get wet. Maybe the WP/B sock is just there for backup in case the shoe fails? It would surprise me if that is the case.

Michel, I did a trip a couple weekends ago where temps were between 30-35*F. Day one was postholing in wet snow up to my knees much of the day, and lots of stream crossings. I was wearing uninsulated Gore-Tex mids (Salomon) with wool knee socks, and knee-high gaiters. Got to camp, the insides of the boots were soaked. I actually had felt the WPB membrane fail throughout the day with cold water entering from the outside, so I believe it was not just sweat, and the gaiters covered the shoe opening. I took off my wet socks, put on VBLs against the skin for warmth (Stephenson’s Fuzzy Stuff VBL socks), dry wool socks, and Rocky Goretex socks over them to keep the wool socks dry, and put my shoes back on. Day two: shoes were still soaked/partially frozen, and lots more stream crossings were ahead, so I put on this same combination (VBL, wool socks, Rocky socks) for hiking. It was actively precipitating, switching between rain, freezing rain, and snow (as it had been for much of the night). My feet were warm and comfortable for the hike out.

[Jerry Adams]

your feet were warm and comfortable

and dry?

I have had shoe WPB fail and start leaking.  Maybe it makes more sense to not have the WPB layer as part of the shoe, but have it separate, as a sock.  Less likely to fail.  If it does, then just replace the goretex socks

[Greg Pehrson]

and dry?

As dry as they were going to be with VBLs, which is to say, slightly damp, but I like the Stephenson’s Fuzzy Stuff VBL against the skin because it feels much better than a plastic bag, or silnylon, and no need for a liner sock. My feet weren’t sweating a ton because the mids are uninsulated, and the only insulation I had on my feet was the wool socks–which stayed dry from sweat due to the VBLs and dry from the conditions (and the wet shoes) due to the Rocky socks. My feet never felt overheated.

I do think there was value in these conditions to having a Goretex shoe even though it eventually failed–postholing all day in mesh shoes would have been less fun, and perhaps would have overwhelmed the Goretex socks too, like in Geoff’s experience above.

I know, it sounds like an overly redundant system, but I was very glad to have it that day.

[Jerry Adams]

I made some pants and a shirt from fuzzy stuff.  Comfortable.

I didn’t use them much because they were too heavy.  I don’t do arctic expeditions where they would work very well, I think

[Miner]

I hiked the CDT south last year.  Due to an early injury, I was hiking pretty late in the season as I got further south. I entered Colorado in October around the time I originally planned to be leaving the state and had to deal with snow (few snow drifts up to the knees and postholing to the calves as the freeze thaw cycle crusted the top) in the northern part before finally skipping south to Pagosa Springs to get out of it. I also had some snow in New Mexico (a few inches at a time) and had to deal with it as it melted while I hiked.

In the snow I had already planned to wear Sealskinz brand waterproof socks over merino wool (smartwool brand) thin liner socks. My main purpose of the liner socks was to keep my foot fungus and sweat out of the waterproof socks as they would be easier to launder thoroughly and I don’t think the waterproof socks are really breathable. The liner socks also made hiking in them more confortable given how thick and non stretchy the waterproof socks were.  I had really thick callouses by then so blisters weren’t a concern. I was wearing breathable mesh top trail runners which let water and snow in, but my feet stayed pretty dry and warm. At the end of the day, the inner socks were only a little damp.

I kept the Sealskinz socks for the rest of the trail in New Mexico and even in cold rain, they definitely kept my feet much warmer and drier than my normal wool socks did (too lazy to change out of them once so I did compare the results).  So I’m sold on waterproof socks for cold wet weather and snow when wearing normal non-waterproof trail runners.  I think they are more versatile than waterproof shoes since you have the option to not using them in warmer drier weather.

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