Houdini death?

Clean it with a technical wash, give it a DWR teatment and hope for the best.

Well… it’s a windshirt, not a rain jacket.

I have an older Houdini I have worn probably hundreds of days. I wash it when my wife says she can smell and makes me wash it. I have never done a DWR treatment and really don’t know if it will wet-out when it rains because I put on a poncho or rain jacket when wet stuff falls out of the sky.

The DWR isn’t inherent to the fabric like Epic, it is a C8 (or C6) fluorocarbon that does wear out.  First off make sure you don’t wash it with detergent- be sure to use a soap (pretty much only found in sports wash nowadays), if a wash with tech wash and a stunt in the dryer doesn’t cure it, you can reapply dwr with a spray on C6 dwr. It is never quite as good as the factory though.

Thanks for the advice. I’ll try another wash cycle and if that fails I’ll try a spray-on DWR. Will that change the breathability? Somewhere I thought I had read the pre-2012 DWR was baked-in, which led me to think a spray or wash-in treatment would fail.

I do realize it’s not a rain jacket, but in the Mid-Atlantic USA it is nice to have a wind jacket that can stand a slight drizzle without having to immediately relayer every time. We don’t all live in the beautiful desert Nick!

I’ve had the best success with ReviveX. No data, but Nikwax hasn’t been as good to me.

The Houdini is one of my favorite pieces of gear. Fit, finish, and function are outstanding. I have heard the newer iterations do no breath as well, so I would be hesitant in purchasing a newer Houdini. In my mind, it would not make sense to replace an outstanding windshirt like this with something else just because the DWR doesn’t work as it did when new. Just as I wouldn’t replace a DWR treated down jacket because it was no longer “water resistant.”

Keep in mind that I have backpacked in every state in the US, except Minnesota and Alaska, so I have experienced and am familiar with weather all over the country.

Hey thanks Glen. I’ll try the Revivex and cross my fingers.

Nick I hear you. I love my Houdini too. It has joined me on two thrus. However most of my “weekly” trail time is in damp, humid, misty conditions where a rain shell is overkill. For this reason having a breathable wind jacket/mid-layer with a functional DWR is on my priority list. Otherwise I’m just wearing a wet sponge. I get it that your priorities are different, and if I seemed dismissive of your points or your experience I apologize.

According to Richard Nisley’s old posts, the DWR on the older Houdinis *is* actually inherent to the fabric, just like Epic, and a spray-on fluorocarbon DWR as people are saying to do is the wrong move as it won’t properly bind to the fabric. The inherent DWR is a silicone encapsulation and could be restored with a diluted silicone bath, I believe – but you have to get the mixture just right or you could kill breathability by plugging all empty spaces.

Mind you, they went through a bunch of different versions of fabrics so maybe yours isn’t one of these.

But you could try just a good cleaning and then iron the Houdini to see if that brings back the DWR in any case. The heat should help bring out and spread the remaining DWR regardless of if it is silicone or fluorocarbon.

This might be the wrong or right way to move, but it looks like it’s still available at select places at clearance prices.

https://gearjunkie.com/outdoor-research-helium-hybrid-jacket-review

If looking for a replacement the Patagonia Airshead Pullover looks to be as good as or better than the old Houdini (other than perhaps the lack of full zip and hood).  Though I imagine your Houdini isn’t dead – I still have a 2011 that is in great shape and a much loved and used Montane Aero from ~2007.

Thanks Bradley. I thought I remembered reading Richard state the DWR was “baked-in” but I couldn’t find the post, so I was hoping/thinking I might be wrong.

I had not come across the ironing remedy so I may give that a try!

As to the replacement options, thanks but I already have a Squamish waiting in the wings. I just really like the Houdini so I’d like to save it if possible.

Wouldn’t try ironing a Houdini unless someone has done it and told you that it worked and exactly how to do it. You could end up with quite a mess and ruin your jacket completely. Most outdoor wear is not ironed. A too-hot iron would melt some fabrics.

I iron most of my MYOG materials before sewing. My iron has both a nylon and polyester settings so I just set that according and iron away. It goes without saying I don’t press as hard as with jeans and I move it around a lot.

The two best spray-on DWRs that I know of are Grangers and REVIVEX.

flurocarbon DWR will outlast wax based ones …

if you want to iron try using a towel between the iron and the jacket …

or sumply throw it in the dryer for 15 min or so on low

;)

“According to Richard Nisley’s old posts, the DWR on the older Houdinis *is* actually inherent to the fabric, just like Epic, and a spray-on fluorocarbon DWR as people are saying to do is the wrong move as it won’t properly bind to the fabric.”

Does this also apply to schoeller nanosphere?

The old Houdini used a silicone oil coating rather than the solid silicone formulation on the Military garments. If the water won’t bead after a non-detergent wash and a half hour of 140F tumble dry, C6 should restore it.

The original Nanosphere used C8 and the current versions use C6. They can be restored like any other WPB.

A word of caution – after many years excellent service my and my wife’s beloved pre-2012 Houdinis met an untimely end in a horrific dryer accident. The problem was not warm temperature, but my wife deciding to add a few heavy wet garments to the mix in the name of time and energy efficiency, which resulted in horrific shredding and my entering a numb zombie-like state. So the dryer can be safe, but beware drying with anything else that isn’t light with a smooth surface.

“The original Nanosphere used C8 and the current versions use C6. They can be restored like any other WPB.”

A lot of dwr sprays are not fluorocarbon based, would non-fluorocarbon dwr work if applied to a semi permanent fluorocarbon base?

Use only a C6 to restore C6 or C8.

Do you know of a c6 or c8 dwr spray on the market? It’s hard to figure out what the manufacuters are using in dwr spray. I know that the grangers bottle I have is non flurocarbon based.

I wonder if perhaps a heavier duty degreaser might be in order?  While synthetics tend to slightly hydrophobic to moderately hydrophobic, a lot of them are oleophillic.  Body oils bond more strongly these fabrics, which then hold onto other gunk which has hiigher surface energy.  Maybe if you degrease it really well, and then rinse all residues away, it could restore repellency?

Richard, because of the difference in silicone application/type, is one inherently longer lasting than the other (older Houdini vs Military EPIC jackets)?   And what do you mean by silicone oil vs solid silicone?