Hoodless 10 degree bag?

[S Long]

I am looking for a hoodless sleeping bag rated at around 10 degrees (Fahrenheit). I already have a Katabatic Gear Palisade with 4 ounces of overfill. It’s good to right around 20 degrees. I also have a Western Mountaineering Puma for when it’s REALLY cold (good to about 30 degrees below zero in my experience). I am looking for something to fill in the gap between these two. I find a quilt to be a bit too drafty below 20 degrees and am not fond of a hood on a sleeping bag until it’s positively arctic. I am side sleeper and I toss an turn a lot. Is there anyone who makes a hoodless sleeping BAG (not a quilt) that’s good to around 10 degrees? So far Zpacks’ full zip bag and Enlightened Equipment’s Conundrum are the only things I have found. It sounds like the Zpacks option might have a restrictive footbox. A Feathered Friends Flickr would be ideal if they made one with a rating below 20 degrees. Does anyone have any experience with these options? Thanks for any feedback.

[Paul McLaughlin]

Get a WM Versalite and cut off the hood. And yes, I am serious. With the collar intact you’ll get a nice seal around the neck.

[Matt Dirksen]

So if I understand you correctly, you’d like a 0 degree semi-rectangular bag.

Personally, If I had your Palisade, I’d probably simply experiment with down socks, pants, jacket, and a good sleeping pad (or two.) In my experience with a somewhat similar setup, I don’t notice quilt drafts at all when I’m wearing down pants and a jacket (I wear down pants & a jacket to push my 50 & 40 degree quilts down about 10-15 degrees. It’s especially effective when I increase the R value below me.)

But not to digress, FF has their 10 degree Penguin. That’s kind of close. That plus your Palisade and you’ll be toasty warm.

[S Long]

I already have a good puffy jacket (a couple of them, actually). Maybe I will try the down pants and socks thing. A few people have PM’ed me about this, and I appreciate the feedback. I am not looking for a semi-rectangular bag, More like a mummy bag without a hood. I actually considered the Versalite w/o a hood. Someone mentioned the WM Ponderosa to me. It is very similar to the FF Penguin. Both are heavier and bulkier than I am looking for, though. I am not a big guy (5’10”, 150 lbs.) so I don’t need a ton of space. The Nunatak 3D is pretty dang close to what I was looking for, but a similarly spec’d EE Conundrum is cheaper and lighter. Thanks again for the feedback. I now have a better idea of what’s out there and some things to try.

[Jennifer S]

I am on the same hunt as you…10 Degree hoodless mummy bag less than 2 lbs.  I have looked at Zpacks Full Zip, Enlightened Equipment Conundrum, FF Flicker, FF Tanager, WM Ponderosa, Nunatak 3D, and Timmermade Oriole.  None of these are exactly what I am after.  The FF Flicker comes the closest, but the shortest length it comes in is 6’0″.  I am only 5’5″, so this extra space is a waste of weight, materials, warmth, and money.  Also, as you mentioned, 20 deg is their warmest bag and I wish it had a sewn footbox.

If I had my dream bag, it would be a 10 Deg, 850+ fill, 3/4 zip, hoodless mummy with a sewn footbox, draft collar, and draft tube(s).  I don’t think that this exists.  I have owned or tried a FF Tanager, Katabatic Alsek, and WM Versalite.

Did you end up finding a bag that works for you?  If so, do tell?

[nunatak]

The 3D comes in 5’6″ (S)

It utilizes 900 treated; but 900 regular is also possible

The zipper is ¾” length

The footbox is sewn, mummy style.

There’s a draft collar and 2 (two) draft tubes along the zipper.

Stock temp ratings are 35-25-15-5. All Fahrenheit. Creating a 10° is simple.

The wait time is 8 weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[S Long]

I haven’t revisited it, but it sounds like Nunatak can make what we’re looking for. The pricepoint is a bit high, but you get what you pay for from them by all accounts. I better start saving.

[Ryan Jordan]

My pick: The FF Tanager 20 F (esp. with +2 oz overfill) with a nice parka like a 12.5 oz Yukon is fine down to 10 *F with the rest of your clothes, or with a Helios into the single-digit F’s. This is my fall/early winter system now.

[Paul French]

I have one WM bag(Antelope MF) currently but have had 4 or 5 over the years and would not have the heart to cut off a WM hood, particularly if there was a less expensive acceptable alternative.

Your questions came at a good time as I was just spec’ing a UGQ ZERO degree Bandit quilt which will be my first quilt as I ponder my purchase for the terrible Northerner storm I hope we will get in the Texas Panhandle this year, (Always hoping but seldom comes but once every few years).

Have you considered a UGQ ZERO degree Bandit quilt, 55″ x 72″, fully insulated and sown foot box, draft collar, fully tapered, 800 fill power (850/900 available) with +3 oz overfill, totalling 31.6 oz( that might include the bag) totaling $318(now on sale) with 2-4 weeks to shipment. UGQ says they already stuff at 130% in base price. Comes with an excellent pad attachment set up but check out what Greg23 one of our BPL brothers did concerning closing the two sides of a quilt together :  https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/40328/

Following what Greg did seems like it would work or you might just decide to the sew the two quilt sides together rather than decapitating a WH hood..

Also, since above I spec’d a ZERO degree bag, +3 oz overfill and a fully insulated foot box you probably could save 3-6oz ( and $)unless you are a cold sleeper like me. Keeping the 3 oz overfill, going to 10 degree quilt and having a sown rather than a fully insulated foot box gets you down to 25.21 oz.

See my only just in process discussion concerning SOL ESCAPE/ESCAPE LITE BIVY and Stephenson Warmlite Vapor Barrier clothes and you should have additional warmth only when needed and maybe still be under 2 lbs. at  https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/solescape-lite40-escape50-escape-pro122-valuemost-effective-use/

Full disclosure: From Stephenson Warmlite I have 2 three layer sleeping bags, one or two tents, 3 of the backpacks with the swing arms and have over 100 nights sleeping in a Stephenson hooded VB jacket anywhere between 40F to around 0 F. If it might get below 40F, I WILL be packing that VB jacket.

Best of WARMTH with whatever you finally decide.

Paul

 

[Jennifer S]

Paul,

I am 100% with you.  I could not bring myself to put scissors anywhere near a WM bag.  It would be tragic to pay $590 for the Versalite only to have to cut off a feature such as the hood that surely added to the cost in the first place.  Also, the bag itself is so beautiful, that I just can’t see myself undoing the craftsmanship.

I have a UGQ Bandit 10 Degree quilt and I am in love with it.  It’s a beautiful, high quality quilt and Paul at UGQ is wonderful to work with.  I plan to buy two of their youth sized Bandits for my kids.

As a colder female sleeper that tosses and turns throughout the night, a 10 degree quilt doesn’t keep me warm and cozy enough below 30.  It’s not so much the temperature rating, but rather it’s the draftiness and inability to fully wrap myself up that keeps me from staying warm.  I thrash about quite a bit.  I had to sell my Katabatic Alsek 22 because I slept cold every single night on the JMT in 2017.  Buying a wider quilt (which I did with my UGQ) does help with drafts when tossing and turning, but the extra space under the quilt makes it harder to warm up.

I will say that the strap system on the UGQ Bandit holds up better to my thrashing and functions better (for me) than the Katabatic Alsek and the Enlightened Equipment strap systems.  Also, I know that I might be plenty warm in a quilt at colder temps if I were to wear additional down layers, but I don’t like sleeping in layers because it feels stifling.  In any case, the UGQ is the best performing quilt that I have owned.

So, like the OP I am wanting a 10 Degree hoodless mummy with a sewn footbox for those times when I expect temps in the 20s.  I don’t want to have to supplement my quilt with added layers to get it to perform how I need it to perform,  I’d rather just have a hoodless bag that does exactly what I need it to do.

As for a new hoodless mummy bag, Nunatak has me covered.  I originally looked at Nunatak, but dismissed the 3D because it is labeled as a quilt.  Having a UGQ quilt that I love and knowing that I wanted a bag, it didn’t seem to make sense to look at another quilt.  That being said, and after looking into it further as a result of Jan’s/Nunatak’s response on this thread, the 3D is more of a sleeping bag than a quilt (at least in my mind).  It has very similar inner dimensions to my WM Versalite bag.  This roomy interior is critical for me since I flip throughout the night and often sleep on my stomach with my elbows bent so that I can rest my head on my forearms.  The shoulder width on the Versalite and 3D allows me to do exactly this while keeping the bag up and over my shoulders with the neck cinched.  I can also pull my knees up when I am sleeping on my side.

Along with the roomy dimensions of the 3D, Nunatak offers every single feature that I want on my bag…draft collar, dual draft tubes, sewn footbox, vertical tapered baffles, neck cinches placed on each side of the bag rather than one in the middle, differential cut, shaped footbox, etc.  Additionally, I can use it as a quilt if I do find it too toasty on warmer nights.  This combination of features can not be found on any other hoodless bag under 2 lbs.  So, I coughed up the money and put my order in today.  My custom order will likely take 8 weeks or more, but I just know that this is the exact bag that I have been after.

[Paul French]

Jennifer,

If I may ask, about what did the 3D, Nunatak cost?

Paul

[Jennifer S]

Paul,

The 15 Degree Nunatak 3D starts at $490 and weighs 26.3 oz in the 66” length.  I am certain this would have been warm enough for the majority of my needs, but I went with the 5 Degree 3D so that I can push the temp limits further during the shoulder seasons…and because I seem to sleep colder as I age and I don’t ever want to buy another bag at this price level.

The 5 Degree 3D is $565 and weighs 32.5 oz in the 66” length.  I added dual draft tubes ($20) and a 7D waterproof/breathable outer fabric ($40) to the footbox and draft collar since I use a single wall tent and sometimes fight condensation.  Total cost $625.  My 10 Deg UGQ was $370 and my WM Versalite was $590 (but I sold it).

This bag as I have customized it is probably overkill for most, but it is the be-all end-all sleeping solution for me!  Between my UGQ Bandit and the Nunatak 3D, I can sleep comfortable in any condition.  I can even combine the two for winter camping.

[Axel J]

I have owned the Versalite for some 10 years now and in that time have also purchased and used a verity of other bags and quilts and always come back to the WM. At one time I too, considered cutting of the hood and even contacted WM to see if they would do that, and of course, they said no, and BTW, was told it would no longer be a 10 degree bag.

For me, it has been a learning curve on how to sleep in a bag and adjusting the hood and draft guard for comfort and movement within the bag such as side sleeping which I do 95% of the time. For me its a much  better experience compared to the quilt system and worth the weight penalty of the hood and backside down compression. Never ever any drafts! Anyway, I have always thought the backside down compression issue has been a bit overstated, especially when sleeping on your side.

[Paul French]

JENNIFER,

BEING ABLE TO MAKE ALL OF THOSE CUSTOMIZATION DECISIONS IS AT LEAST HALF OF THE FUN.

ALEX,

WM PRETTY MUCH TRUMPS EVERYTHING ELSE. I HAVE OWNED AT LEAST 5 WMs, ALWAYS BOUGHT THEM GENTLY USED, ALWAYS MADE A PROFIT WHEN I SOLD THEM A YEAR OR TWO LATER. I MISS EVERYONE I SOLD BUT WAS ABLE TO END UP WITH A HEALTHY NUMBER OF “GOOD ENOUGH” BAGS COVERING EVERY TEMP RANGE I AM LIKELY TO EVER NEED WITH CASH, BUT NOT CLOSET SPACE, LEFT OVER.

PAUL

[Doug Coe]

Alex / @axel-t

I have a WM Ultralite, am a side sleeper, and never turn my bag with me—just leaving the hood on the bottom and using it to hold my inflatable pillow.

Do you tighten the hood around your head?

And do you turn the bag with you when you switch which side your sleeping on? If so, do you roll off your pad (I would)?

Also, with a WM bag, before you get in you can push the down in the bottom to the top—the baffles are continous. Good for colder nights!

[Axel J]

@Doug Coe

Doug, It may be a little different with the WM Ultralite because it does not have the draft collar but with the Versalite, when its cold and the hood is cinched down, my pillow is outside of the hood and the upper half of the bag twists with the shoulders but the lower half stays more or less in the same position. If the hood is not cinched, I turn onto my side within the bag.

The draft collar is a nice feature, it can remain fully cinched but the hood completely loosened on less cold nights then side sleeping becomes much easier by rolling within the bag only.

[Doug Coe]

@axel-t Axel

I’ll have to try using my hood and see if I can twist and still stay on my Neoair pad.

Btw, actually, the Ultralite does have a draft collar.

[Axel J]

Doug, thanks for the correction, good to know that the Ultralite does have the draft collar too!

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