HMG Made in Mexico [round 2]

Simulacra posted

Just noticed this today. Hyperlite is now making their gear in Mexico. How new is this? Will this be a decline in quality? Customer service has been lacking the last few years. Prices continue to rise as production costs undoubtedly went down. What can we expect and has anybody noticed or do we care?

Rex posted

A quick search finds many HMG products are now made in Mexico, including backpacks, shelters, and accessories.

The move was reported on Reddit eight months ago, apparently driven by much higher demand (COVID) and U.S. labor shortages (COVID). Some of the HMG claims in that announcement have not yet come true.

Also reported three months ago on this German-language forum (caution, lots of Flammen). After translation, production in Mexico avoids 25% EU tariffs, too.

Ironically, in 2015 CEO/Founder Mike St. Pierre said:

Hyperlite Mountain Gear designs and manufactures all of its gear in Maine (USA), because we want to control the quality to a higher standard. You lose that when you send your manufacturing to Mexico or Asia.

Change is inevitable. Made in Mexico, China, or wherever does not imply lower quality today. Often just the opposite.

Also thanks to COVID, DCF/DCH supplies shrank and costs skyrocketed. Prices have gone up for Dyneema-based backpacking gear from many makers; HMG is not alone in that department. Some companies are switching to other fabrics – for better or worse. Every fabric has compromises in every application.

I have no recent experience with HMG customer service. My gear from them just works, including a 10-year-old Windrider plus somewhat newer pockets & pods. I’d say the best customer service is the kind you don’t need.

Quoting Google: Lasset die Flammen beginnen!

— Rex

John S posted

with the geopolitical turmoil, it seems a good move to me.

Johan posted

I purchased a made-in-Mexico Southwest 3400 a couple months ago.

The build quality was absolutely terrible.

The stitching was messy. The shoulder straps and frame supports were all sewn just randomly without any thought to centering or aligning them. The shoulder straps were offset 1/2 inch to the side. Being made in Mexico doesn’t in itself mean anything, but my backpack was a complete joke for $400+ after tax.

I also think Hyperlite gear is WAY overrated for the price. I get that they have to use higher prices when dealing with selling through outlets like REI, as they can’t retain the profit margins they have selling directly, but still. Even if my backpack was perfectly constructed as designed [edit]

JCH posted

@Johan – That is a very disturbing story. I hope your experience was an anomaly and not indicative of the overall quality of HMG’s current production.

High quality products can be made in any country…but the manufacturer needs to value producing a quality product.  I often say “In order to do something well, one must first want to do that thing”.

The problem occurs when the decision to outsource production is primarily about cost/profit, and quality becomes a second or third consideration…or is no longer a consideration at all.

Johan posted

To be honest, I probably would have returned it anyway to REI even if it was made in USA and had no defects. I find it’s just all around a very poorly designed backpack that people love because it’s water resistant and very durable and holds a lot of gear.

[edited]

I don’t feel these packs were originally designed to be used long distances as much as shorter trips into highly technical terrain. If someone can carry one of these on an AT thru-hike, it says more about the user being tough than it does about the backpack being ideal for such use.

Now that Zpacks has a new Arc Haul Ultra with ULTRA 100 and 200 fabrics, I don’t see any reason to buy a similar volume HMG pack for durability, in terms of punctures and abrasion. Although I do find their decision to use pre-curved stays limits the versatility unless swapped out for straight ones. But, to be fair to HMG, their packs are rated for the main compartment volume and don’t include the pockets, so they have a lot more than Zpacks offers in that regard.

I now use an Arc Haul 62L pack for my winter trips instead of the HMG SW 3400, for which I originally wanted it.

JCH posted

I too have settled on an Arc Haul (first gen, Dynema X with straight stays) as my go-to pack for loads less than 25 lbs. I find it nearly perfect for my use.  Should I need to replace it, I would likely go with another in Ultra.

For loads in the 30-40 lb range I still rely on a 5 year old Granite Gear Blaze 60.  Not UL but carries a load beautifully and is nearly bulletproof.

Just for posterity sake, the parts of my posts edited were for being a goofball, they were not edited for any racist or disparaging remarks about Mexico or Mexicans. I’m of Mexican descent myself. :)

Sorry about that. Carry on. Mexico and Mexicans are cool. My beef is with inanimate backpacking objects.

I have mixed feelings about HMG packs.

When the first Porter 4400 came out it was one of the few really light packs that could carry a big load and were water resistant. All the cool kids got HMG packs. They filled a niche especially for packrafters.

The problem was the HMG packs often didn’t hold up the heavy loads. They beefed them up so they are better. But that made them heavier.

The thing is a beefed up Porter isn’t much lighter then many similar packs on the market. My Seek Outside pack would be only marginally heavier if I cut off the pockets. But it’s significantly more comfortable with any load. Reports are that other packs like those by SWD are better as well.

I wish HMG would innovate again. I know a few people there and they are nice folks. I just can’t see paying $400 for their pack. They need to improve the suspension at a minimum. A hanging hip belt would be a start.

Anyway where they are made makes no difference as long as the QC is good. There seems to be a skill set to doing QC well. If the packs aren’t good it could be a failure to communicate not a lack of talent at the sewing bench.

HMG’s suspension is based on the most basic of designs.

This have earned them a significant market share, only possible via two routes: distinct visuals pared with brilliant marketing; or competitive pricing.

We know which they chose.

HMG packs have a pretty wide following here in Alaska. Example: if you look at the packs at the start of the annual Alaska Wilderness Classic race (now in its 40th year), it wouldn’t surprise me if 2/3 of the racers had HMG packs, and it’s not because they’re sponsored, or rich, or inexperienced pretentious show-offs. They are practical people using a product that came early to the market in a particular category; highly water resistant simple and lightweight gear that met a particular need. That need being carrying the absolute bare minimum across untracked Alaskan wilderness for 3 to 7 days (depending on the course) with maybe an hour‘s rest per 24 hour period. I don’t have any particular thoughts about their current built quality or their decision to offshore production, just to contextualize their popularity with a lower level of cynicism.

Philip snaking through alders is actually one area where HMG packs do well. They are sleek without a lot to catch, durable enough, and water resistant. Also they are being used by athletes. Normal people might prefer a better suspension. I prefer a better load hauler since I often carry more then 35 pounds (my limit for HMG packs). I still think there is an element of style. I wonder how many people got one because Luc Mehl has one?

Wait, what, So HMG isn’t cool anymore? Like Arcteryx?

“…if you look at the packs at the start of the annual Alaska Wilderness Classic race it wouldn’t surprise me if 2/3 of the racers had HMG packs, and it’s not because they’re sponsored, or rich, or inexperienced pretentious show-offs.”

While these participants are not sponsored, if the popularity of these packs is supposed to mean something about their utility then it is worth keeping in mind that HMG has sponsored quite a few leaders of the AMWC and Alaska adventuring in general, such as Roman Dial and Luc Mehl. That’s not to say anything negative about the packs, but obviously we’d expect to the packs to be popular at an event where Roman and Luc are the two legends and both are HMG ambassadors.

I think HMG has done a tremendous job with marketing and also build quality (at least historically). For the pack designs themselves, if I was after a serious load hauling pack I’d be looking at something with load lifters, more ergonomics shoulder straps, and a frame with horizontal structure. I think the design works better in the mid-weight category (e.g. 2400, and 3400 packs) where it is a good pack.

Disclaimer: I also design packs for my company Durston gear.

Johan,

I don’t see goofball remarks listed in the No, No’s.  Thread Drift is, and it happens all the time, even by moderators.  Am glad you spoke up about what your remarks were NOT.  Good for you.

I have been after getting another Porter of fully woven Dyneema made, just like they have in the past for an up charge and a moderate lead time.  (I sold it and later regretted it!) I was told no mods of any type.  I also tried calling the shop and could not get through to anyone. It was a run around on their call system and would keep rerouting you to the main menu. Not the best experiences but probably a sign where they are headed by making things in mass for the bog box outdoor retailers.

@Stumphges

The disclaimer at the end of my post is something required by BPL for anyone with potential commercial interests with the intent of bringing transparency. My comments about HMG were largely positive, and I have never criticized where they manufacture.

More thought seems to go into marketing than iterating the product. It’s style over function.

The dcf fabric is inferior to XPac. They should have made the switch. Clearly they should switch to Challenge ultra.

Making a 3300, and DEFINITELY A 4400 or 5300 pack with a large taper so that much of weight is above the shoulders and not putting load lifters on is preposterous, and anyone arguing that this makes sense is fooling themselves. Extend the frame and add load lifters and the pack immediately gets better.

They aren’t a cottage manufacturer anymore, they are a brand making decisions based on branding not from first principles. Flavored vodka.

Just want to register my disappointment. I noticed this change only after I saw the company’s new umbrella was made in China. What the heck.

I wonder what happened to the workers and what this does to the town in Maine where they were making this.

Very disappointing. Was a pro customer and will not be using my membership.

I wonder what happened to the workers and what this does to the town in Maine where they were making this.

Thank you for pointing this out. The entire reason why I brought this topic up.

A quick Googlé search turned this up on Reddit.  Apologies if this is old news, but I had not seen it referenced here so have included (a very slightly redacted version of) it.  Link to original post if you want to ready all the replies :)

Posted by u/JKemu 10 months ago

…just received newsletter explaining the company new production strategy:

“To start, demand has been incredible. So, thank you very much for your support of our brand and your appreciation of our best-in-class ultralight gear. However, we do not have, and cannot find enough, skilled stitchers and makers in our community to fill the seats required to make all the bags currently on order. We have been plagued by the similar 2021 labor shortages across the nation as a result of Covid that you’ve likely read about in the news. And due to our deep customer commitment, we have no choice but to find alternatives.

Fortunately, in May we were able to secure a factory in Mexico that is a 100% extension of Hyperlite, and is 100% dedicated to our tent and pack production. It is run by a long-time friend, and we have been immersing the best makers from our Maine headquarters into this factory to train and ensure our products are made exactly the same way we always have. We are just beginning to receive completed goods back in Maine, we already have 120 stitchers working for us there, and we are very close to securing Fair Trade and Living Wage certification for the facility.

And we cannot think of a better location for the supplemental production of Hyperlite Mountain Gear products. Our extension factory is located in the mountains at 8,000 ft. and is very near Pico de Orizaba, which is North America’s third highest peak at 18,500 ft. More importantly, there is a community of 20,000 highly skilled sewers here, the quality is outstanding, and every raw material they receive comes directly from our Maine headquarters. This means our products will maintain the highest quality standard we’ve always set for ourselves, if not better, and our current order backlog issue should soon be solved for good.

By having both our Maine and Mexico factories running, we’ll soon be able to meet demand in real time and ship orders with no lead times. As part of this move we will be providing 100% supply chain transparency for every product we make. You’ll be able to see the name of the town and the factory address where the product is made, a map where the factory is located, as well as photos of the community, location and the wonderful and dedicated people who build your gear.”

PR is always so crafty ;) Thank you for your input