Hiking in and out of cold water (Bucksin & Paria in winter)

[Ralph Burgess]

I want to check out Buckskin Gulch & Paria in winter, so I need a setup for hiking in and out of freezing cold water, generally no more than knee deep;  but preferably reasonably comfortable for walking in long dry sections so that I’m not constantly changing.    Let’s assume air temperatures of 40-45.

I’m thinking Sealskinz socks, maybe their “Trekking Mid Length Waterproof Merino”?
Or would neoprene socks be better, given that my feet will frequently be fully under water?
Trail runners (low mesh sides for easy draining, non goretex), insoles removed to make room.

And wetsuit pants.  1.5mm?   I’m thinking 3mm might be uncomfortable to hike in.  I will not usually be wet above the knee and I’ll be in and out of water, so along with the Seakskinz mid-length socks will 1.5mm be enough?

[S Long]

I would go with the neoprene socks. It’s what canyoneers wear in and out of cold water and it works well. Make sure your shoes are big enough to accommodate the extra thickness of thick neoprene socks. If your feet are squeezed, lack of circulation will lead to the problem you are trying to avoid. You might have to size up one full size. Also, be sure to take a least one sturdy trekking pole or a staff. Often the water hides ankle-rolling cobbles and deeper-than-expected pools. You don’t want to take an impromptu bath that time of year!

[Alex H]

Ralph, definitely 3 mm neoprene socks with a merino liner sock inside a non-goretex trail shoe.  We did Buckskin/Paria in November and it was pretty cold and we were comfortable, if really cold the wet suit bottoms would be a good idea.  Here is my trip report with a section about footwear.  I would not use the shoes I wore on that trip again, they didn’t really have enough under foot support.

Here is Dave Chenault’s excellent piece on such conditions.

[Ralph Burgess]

Thanks both.  Looks like NRS is the place to go for a variety of neoprene socks.   I might take a couple of thicknesses with me to experiment with, it’s hardly a big weight cost.

[Rob P]

Ralph, I had a similar question a while ago and got some good input in the thread linked below, particularly from Phillip T and his recommendation of perforated neoprene socks:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/cold-wet-feet-fleece-socks/

[Ralph Burgess]

Great – so I think I’ll get a pair of the perforated neoprene, and 3mm NRS neoprene, and maybe a couple of differnet liner socks to experiment with.   That’s negligible extra weight to allow me to optimize my feet.

I’m not sure about the idea of neoprene pants when almost all the water should be under knee deep.   But bare legs isn’t appealing either.   There are some super-cheap 1.5mm ones on Amazon in ugly colors, I might just order a pair and try walking about in them (at night!) to see how uncomfortable they would be in the dry sections.   Neoprene pants would be a pain to take on and off frequently with the multi-layer foot setup.

ETA: maybe trying cheap pants is not the smart thing, because the cheap ones are unlikely to be comfortable.    Looks like NRS Hydroskin in either 0.5 or 1.5 is the way to go.

[Rob P]

Ryan mentioned these knee high waterproof socks in an earlier article, FYI.  Not sure if something like this would interest you or not but it would keep the bottom of your pants dry.

https://kokatat.com/product/hydrus-3l-launch-socks-acuhls

 

[BlackHatGuy]

The issue, IMO, with the Sealskinz, and others like them (like Dexshell and the Showers Pass cycling ones), is that the outer sock wants to be kinda like a regular sock, so that outer portion just sucks up the water and keeps it close to your feet/legs. Okay in warm water I guess, but not so much in cold water. And they take forever to dry.

As far as pants, you could look into Wiggy’s Waders, they might work for you. Easy enough to get on and off and not excessively heavy. Personally I’d cut them down and add bungie if I had some.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I highly recommend wearing 3 mm closed cell neoprene divers sox over thin poly liner socks.

My choice is US Divers 3 mm so because they have factory sealed seams and Left snd Right shaped sox.

Normally I use these sox as VBLs in colder weather inside GTX boots with knee high gaiters. Best VBLs <i>ever. </i> I carry a pair of thin poly liner socks for each day I’ll be backpacking as these socks get very stinky.

Dry your divers sox and turn them inside-out each evening.

BTW, i’ve hiked Paria once and it was “OK” but not nearly as nice as Coyote Gulch. Now I’ll not hike either of them again B/C all poop & TP must be carried out in “wag bags”. Two stupid Boy Scouts burned down the first Cluvus Multrum mulching toilet. And naturally, the BLM did not replace it because the Federal money was needed for yet another aircraft carrier or ten thousand smart bombs, etc. (Remember President Eisenhower warning us of “…the military/industrial complex”?)

[Ralph Burgess]

Eric, I can’t find US DIvers socks, nothing on their website.   Do you know if they have been rebranded?   I’m still looking for quality 3mm, because the NRS Expedition is gone too.

(Please feel free to keep discouraging people from visiting Paria!)

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

I did Buckskin in pretty cold water near freezing and a few pools were waist deep so be prepared

 

Neoprene would be my choice, possibly something to dry off, and maybe a puffy to warm up in if you get real cold.

[Greg Mihalik]

Considered overboot waders yet ? Easy on, Easy off –

http://www.hodgman.com/hodgman-waders-hip-waders/hodgman-gamewade-hip-packable-wader/1337594.html

[David Chenault]

3mm neo socks (ideally seam taped), shoes sized up, scree gaiters, fleece tights.  Neoprene ends up being a liability rather than an asset when it’s out of the water more than in, due to evaporation, so I’d skip the neo pants.  An extra fleece midlayer for moving will help mitigate the stress on your body from working to keep your feet and legs warm.

Read this: https://climb-utah.com/Escalante/buckskinice.htm   Full winter conditions can be quite different than just late fall.

[Daryl and Daryl]

Perforated neoprene socks worked well for me.  I used them for a couple of trips where I was walking in snow and wading streams.

I used them inside synthetic mesh running shoes.  Very comfortable without any socks.

Kept my feet warm while moving.  Had to switch to dry socks after I stopped for the night, however.

[obx hiker]

Hopefully you followed Dave’s link above. I was thinking about ice as well. They’ve had a very dry 2018 in that part of the world and I’d try to get some good data on the water levels with a particular focus on the smaller Buckskin drainage. I’m guessing that 2002 trip had higher water which also maybe was flowing enough to keep the ice thinner.

OK I’m editing to add this insert confessing that instead of just skimming the article linked by David Chenault I have now actually read it….. and I couldn’t believe before reading it that the problem was the Paria instead of Buckskin 

Depending on conditions when you go; lower still water could be really frozen and you might be skating. As you can see from the article Dave linked breaking through will not be fun! I’m not sure how you’d prep for say breakable ice over 2 feet of water in Buckskin.(or in the really wrong conditions as I now see from the linked article in the Paria) Maybe full on wetsuit pants that you were prepared to sacrifice to shredding? Or some soccer style shin-guards?

You ought to be able to work around the edges of frozen pools in the Paria but not Buckskin! 

 yeah right.

At any rate it just goes to show what can happen in really cold weather…… be prepared to turn around!

 

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