Highly breathable shell mittens (or trigger mitts)?

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

Does anyone know of any highly breathable shell mittens? (Or system mittens with a removable liner mitten)?

A trigger mitten would also be ok.

I am looking for something, ideally gauntlet (over the cuff) style, that I can wear over a liner glove or mitten for active use in winter.
Every mitten I have or know of has a (PU?) coating on the inside of the shell fabric, is fully WPB, waxed poly-cotton, or leather. All of those fabrics have poor breathability.

What I’d like is a leather palm, shell mitten with the backhand made of breathable softshell or microfiber fabric.

Knitted liner gloves or fleece ones, are often not warm enough, especially if there is wind, and they offer no resistance against moisture when touching snow.

The other option would be VBL mittens, but the ones I have (the medium weight ones from RBH) don’t work great for me.

I find that my hands get cold in them, because my liner glove gets damp, and there is a lot of dead air space in the VBL mitten, because (like every warmer mitten I have ever tried) they are very wide in the fingers (meant for the 6 and 7 fingered people it seems).
This means that when I take my hand out of the mitt to do something, the damp liner glove really cools my hand rapidly, and then when I put it back in the VBL mitten, the excess space and lack of “puffiness” means it doesn’t really warm up.   (Also because I have Rainaud’s).

Just like we wear highly breathable shell jackets for active use in our torso, I want the same for my hands.

Any recommendations appreciated!

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

I just saw Wintergreen, which is local(ish) to me makes some nylon shell mitts.

https://www.wintergreennorthernwear.com/products/shell-overmitts?variant=37173764620&srsltid=AfmBOopMAYLUX_WOOvxwiiF9AAQiFvvy6gaA8qiYtJgYwZApZVFR0s6uKVw&gQT=1

 

For $100 I would like the palm reinforcement to come up over the tips of the fingers and thumb though.

[David D]

Looking for the same, but waterproof.   If you need waterproof, Ryan recommends WPB Pertex OR Revel Shell Mitts or Goretex Tuff Bags vs the old MLD WPB 3L eVents.  Came across Hestras

I was also looking for flip mitts as a solution, discussed here.  These Monthbell Powder Zip may be closer to your needs.  WPB.

Non waterproof, I tried a few and nothing breathes better with good warmth that I can find than old school rag style (I use these snowshoeing, hiking).  Lots of give for a liner underneath.  I find them warm enough in wind but they may not work for you digging in snow.  Your snow requirement sounds like it forces you to WPB

To avoid damp liners, try latex gloves as the base layer

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

I’m not concerned about digging in snow (I will bring WPB for the rare case that that is required).
I’m talking about grabbing your skis or other items, and they have some snow on them, or snow falling from the sky.

For that, a plain leather palm works and woven fabric back works well enough for me.

So, I specifically do NOT want waterproof. I have plenty of those if needed. But, of course they don’t breathe very well.

 

[Bill Budney]

Windbreaker mittens: I like it! I would use something like that (over wool/fleece mittens over liner gloves). Doesn’t have to be leather palms for me, but some kind of grippy and abrasion-resistant fabric would be good.

The mittens you linked look good. For that price, I would think that you could get someone to custom-make exactly what you want.

[David D]

Those Mark’s gloves or equivalent would be perfect (they are for me).  I find them fine when touching snow, if you’re not digging around

I have a pair of winter riding gloves exactly like you spec’ed (softshell back, full leather palm) but this construction IME is not that warm at all.  A mitt would be warmer than a glove but haven’t come across any built that way. Maybe look for fat bike riding mitts

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

Yes, 45NRTH, a fat bike accessory company used to make their gloves with Neoshell and maybe even plain Schoeller soft shell, so I got a pair last year. They don’t say what the construction is anymore, but experience tells me it’s not very breathable. I suspect they use a PU coating like most everyone else.

I also bought the BD guide trigger mitts, because they are described as having GTX on the removable liner, not in the shell. Which is true. But what they don’t mention is that they used PU coated fabric for the shell… ;-(

[Paul McLaughlin]

Mitten shells are pretty easy to sew. I can send you a pattern

[David D]

Hmmm, having gone way down the rabbit hole on mittens myself, the only other thing I can think of to try is fleece like these black diamonds

I used something similar for the last 10+ years.  They handle liners well if you size up, and the combo is warm on the move.  I switched to the Rag style just this year as my fleece ones were kaput.  Turns out the rag work better for me, they’re warmer, more breathable and hold onto perspiration less.

The fleece may be a more happy trade off for you as they block wind better at the cost of less breathability. You gotta pay one way or the other: higher wind blocking or higher MVTR.  The magic mitt with both doesn’t exist

The waterproof zip style like the Montbells can be unzipped to vent and I bought something similar this year but it hasn’t been cold enough to test them yet

 

[Brad W]

I use these https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/product/waterproof-overmitts/ and really like them but they are not what I would call ‘highly’ breathable. They are low to moderately breathable.  When I am really trucking uphill, at just about freezing,  I put my bear hands in them and it can get just ever so humid. For most of the time they build up no moisture though.

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

Hi Brad,

Yes, I have those BD shells. I like the cut.

But just like we wouldn’t wear a WPB jacket (at least one without vents), but instead breathable soft- or wind-shells, it seems logical to do the same for our hands, since they are quite sweaty parts of our body.

Yesterday, at just above zero, but minimal wind, I wore Defeet liner gloves with BD Softshell mittens over the top. That worked perfect. The thin softshell means snow doesn’t stick and blocks enough wind to work in a wider range of conditions.

Leather palm for grip, durability  and water resistance.

The drawback is that the leather doesn’t go over the tip of the fingers, so they wear prematurely there.

The other issue, for backcountry use, is that they don’t have a gauntlet and wrist strap, so they don’t fit with big sleeves as well and are harder to take on and off quickly to use your phone or other tasks that require finger dexterity and touch screen capability.

The knit cuff is fine for XC skiing (or running I assume).

[Brad W]

I find lately, hiking in snow, my pole handles and gloves are getting snow on them or transferring moisture from the wet cork handle. Even water resistant gloves seem to absorb moisture from the palms in this case. For this reason I use a shell and like you said it does trap heat but for my conditions that’s the trade off for dry liners.

MLD makes shells that are advertised as highly breathable. Not sure about palm durability-maybe one could modify or reinforce the palm and seal the stitching from the inside.

https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/event-rain-mitts/

 

[Bill Budney]

Tjaard, maybe you could help us to better understand how you would use these windbreaker shells?

As others suggest, wool mittens are super breathable and can handle a small amount of snow. When I need to work with more snow, then I put on one (or both) waterproof shells.

What are you doing that requires leather palms and snow-resistant shells for extended periods? Is this for technical climbing?

There is such a thing as getting someone else to make MYOG things for you. Dry cleaners often have seamstresses available. There is even a Reddit sub: r/MYOG commissions.

Regarding the VBL issue, keeping the layer next to skin reduces the chilling problem by allowing you to keep the gloves on for most of the day. I like thicker nitrile gloves (5+ mil). I cycle between a couple of pairs, turning them inside out to dry. I don’t have to take them off often because they somewhat work with touch screens, except for extended typing.

Ryan has suggested food service gloves as VBLs. They are even lighter than nitrile gloves, but but do not fit as closely.

 

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

@Bill,

I have boiled wool mittens with leather palms that are actually quite nice. (Except the leather isn’t quite large enough over the thumb tip, so they will wear out prematurely there). Even those  still let a fair amount of wind through though, so in breezier conditions I still need to add a shell.

I have found for my torso that in most situations I don’t like using something like a nano air, fleece or wool sweaters. Yes, they breathe well, but because they are so air permeable, every time the wind picks up, or my speed (skiing or biking downhill) picks up, I get cold, especially in the front, while the rear is still very (too?) warm. Also, if there is some snow falling, it will collect and soak through fairly soon.

Instead my standard system now is a baselayer, (minimal insulation as needed), and a breathable, and very well vented shell.
I find with this system I can more easily maintain stable comfort, even as wind or ground speed changes, simply by zipping and unzipping.
The fact that it is much thinner also means it doesn’t hold nearly as much moisture, and fallen snow doesn’t stick to the outside as much.

So, I figured I’d apply the same system to my hands.

As far as activities, this is for general winter movement:

Backcountry skiing on AT or Nordic gear. Maybe slow paced XC track skiing.

So the snow resistance requirement is minimal.

I found in the past though, that when I used plain power stretch gloves or mittens, I would soak the palms or fingers tips, just from grabbing my skis to step in and out, or add wax.
Same with backcountry ski touring. Grabbing my skis, messing with bindings, grabbing a railing, rock or tree as a handhold, adjusting boots, etc.

So, most of the time, I don’t need truly waterproof palms, just a bit more water resistance than fleece or wool. And, the other reason is that fleece or wool palms and finger tips wear out long before the rest of the glove.

For the backhand, I figured a woven shell fabric is better than a fleece or wool one,  just like for the torso. So no extreme snow demands.

For snow climbing I would go for fully waterproof mountaineering mittens.

The other thing that has changed in the last years, is my dependence on my touch screen phone.

I mainly use mapping on my phone, take pictures and use a clinometer for avalanche terrain.
So, what works well is a touch screen liner, with a big gauntlet mitten with wrist straps.
I can quickly slide my hand out of the mitts, still have some protection from the cold, use my phone and pull the mittens back on.

This is another place my boiled wool mittens are non very functional: they have a long, fairly narrow cuff, and no wrist leash or attachment point for one.

Perhaps the best answer is to modify those so they have a gauntlet cuff.

I do have a great seamstress here in town.

As far as VBLs, I have only tried nitrile gloves a bit, and didn’t  like them. I might have to try more and difffernt sizes and layering combos.
For my feet I like VBL, (for overnight trips) and wear them over thin liner socks.

As mentioned, I bought some RBH VBL mittens liners, thinking that would be a great option, But, like I mentioned above, I don’t find them that warm, and for this application, the damp liner really chills fingers when you remove the mitten.

So, if I go for VBL (liner) gloves, I don’t see the need for a VBL mitten over that. That might be the system I have to go to, because then I can use one of my many coated/laminated mitten shells.

 

[Bill Budney]

Tjaard: Thank you, that makes perfect sense, especially for biking and skiing downhill. Agreed about tethered mittens over touchscreen liners.

Pogies might work for the fast-moving parts. Even if they are waterproof, they ventilate better. Pogies won’t help for waxing skis, but waterproof shells should be good for that?

The boiled wool mittens that I tried did not work for me (too tight). Cheap mittens that I got on closeout work better because they are loose knit and sized right (for me). I can wear two layers over my glove liners when it is cold enough.

I don’t choose VBL liners for general use. I just mentioned them because you did.

Paul: Is that a mitten pattern that you care to share with the group? That and a seamstress might be a winning combination. :)

 

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

Yes, I had to size up with the boiled wool mittens too.

[David D]

@tjaard, my winter torso system is similar: Brynje mesh with Lifa over (2 base layers vs your one) then a Dooy on top.   I’ve never seen a shell mitten made from something like Dooy’s highly breathable nylon material, you’d probably have to go the DIY route (buy a cheap Dooy as donor material?) and as you say somehow reinforce the palm.

The Dooy saturates from continual snow and “boiling off” from the body is too slow to keep it dry.  I’ve considered applying a DWR for winter, it might be an idea for the back of a shell made from a similar material

If you do find the magic shell, please post.

For phone mapping, I use a flip mitt with touch liner under and am happy.  Sometimes its cold enough out here that removing the overmitt or flipping it open for more than a minute becomes trouble, even with the liner.  Recently I started using a stylus and its much better, no need to remove or open mitts.

[Ross Bleakney]

I will share my system in hopes it will help. I cross-country ski in the Pacific Northwest, where temperatures often hover a few degrees above or below freezing. I usually go uphill (a lot) so it is usually cold and dry when I stop. In general there is a wide range of temperatures (once in a while it gets very cold).

I typically where a base layer shirt and a fleece sweater when going uphill. If snow/slush is coming down I often wear a windshirt as well. This keeps the fleece from getting too wet. The windshirt is not waterproof (but more breathable than a rain jacket). The windshirt makes things a bit clammy but it is better than getting the fleece wet. Sometimes the windshirt will be soaked but the fleece will be reasonably dry. I also carry a down jacket. I use this when I am stopped or when I go downhill. This means that it sometimes gets very wet going downhill but since I am headed to the car it isn’t a problem. It sounds like you want a similar system for your hands.

For my gloves I also have layers. I have liner gloves that are thin enough that I can tie my shoes and do other tasks. I have boiled-wool mitts with tight weave that are both breathable and very warm. I also have a waterproof shell. This shells are also insulated.

Most of the time I wear the liners and the wool mitts. When I stop I limit how much I use my liner gloves (by themselves). I don’t pick up the ski and put it in the ground with my gloves. I use my mitts for that. Then (once the ski has been cleared of snow) I take my mitts off and do whatever I had planned on doing (e. g. retying my shoes). If I wax my skis I clear the snow off with the back of my mitt. But I’m not perfect. Sometimes I space out and get my liner gloves wet. For that reason I always have a spare in my pack (they don’t weigh much). It is less common for me to get my wool mitts wet but it has happened. I used to keep an extra pair of wool mitts (that weren’t as good) in my pack for that reason. But my current pair can tolerate quite a bit of wet snow without it passing through — I’ve yet to have a problem. When it is cold enough (typically when I go downhill) I put on the liners. This provides both wind and moisture protection (especially handy when I fall). I used to have a set of shells that weren’t insulated but decided to splurge. When my hands are cold (typically after eating) it takes a while for them to warm up. It also means that even if really screw up and all my other gloves and mitts are wet I at least have an insulated layer to put on.

I’ve never ran across your specific problem but I can see how it would happen. If I was going uphill and it was really windy I might find that the wool mitts aren’t enough and yet the extra shell is too clammy. Some ideas: An extra layer of (really big) wool mitts to put on over the other ones. This still might fail (if the wind is too strong) but it might be worth a shot. Another alternative would be to carry some down mittens (like these). They aren’t quite as breathable but my guess is they are more breathable than a typical waterproof shell. These wouldn’t necessarily replace your other mitts (especially if it is close to freezing) but something to stick in your pack when the other system isn’t working.

This is an ultralight website and no one wants to carry too much stuff. But winter is no time to stretch the envelope. Gloves and mitts also don’t weight that much (neither do socks — a different subject). Carrying somewhat redundant gloves and mitts might be the best option.

 

 

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