Help with designing/developing performance socks made with Yak wool

The past few years I have used Darn Tough Vermont non cushion socks bakpacking.  I wear crew socks with pants and 1/4 height with shorts.  Prior to that I was using Defeet Woolieator which was a similar sock.

Both have been equally comfortable, but I do think the Darn Tough’s last long.

Colors aren’t that important, but I guess I would say blacks/greys then bright colors.

For daily wear I use Smartwool or REI light hiker socks in either grey/blue (with jeans) or tan (with khaki pants).

For running I generally wear synthetic socks dryfit usually but generally am not as picky.

Fit is the most important thing, followed by by durability.

Do you want a high performance sport sock or a casual, wear everyday sock that is also good enough for hiking? – Performance sock.

What type of sock are you most interested in wearing? Crew hiking, quarter sport, low cut sport, ski sock, casual? – Crew for three season, knee-high for winter

Do you choose bright colors/designs, earthy/natural colors, or blacks/greys? – Color never enters into my sock selection criteria

What kind of cushioning do you like to have? Light, medium, heavy? – light

What’s most important in a sock? Warmth, comfort, great fit, durability, great design/colors, anti-bacterial, easy to wash etc. – like Brad, great fit first, followed closely by durability. Anti-bacterial would be a nice addition.

What brands are you using now? – Darn Tough.

What price should a sock be? And for a pack of 3? – No idea

Anything else you can think of? – Would be great if they were ‘Insect Shield’ socks (permethrin treated at the factory).

“Anything else you can think of? – Would be great if they were ‘Insect Shield’ socks (permethrin treated at the factory).”

True – I have sent a couple of pairs of my Darn Toughs to Insect Shield for treatment.

Thanks for the input. Permethrin treated is an interesting idea, and I will look into it more.

We were thinking along the lines of what you both have said, using natural undyed yak colours (brown, black and light grey) and knitting a light weight crew sock with some cushioning under the ball of the foot and heel.

In terms of durability, the way the factory knits their performance socks is done in a way that nylon reinforcing is placed in high wear areas (ball of foot, heel, and around ankle). The nylon is on the outside of the sock, and its still 100% yak on the inside. The result is really good durability and a sock that keeps its shape.

“Do you choose bright colors/designs, earthy/natural colors, or blacks/greys?”

“Colors aren’t that important …” -Brad
“Color never enters into my sock selection criteria” -Doug

I am on the other side of this opinion. Personally I consider color a primary factor in choosing all of my hiking garments. I only wear light colors including socks and footwear. I live in the Northeast US, and I have found light color socks and shoes dissuade ticks from hitchhiking. (They generally start low, and climb.) When they do latch on, light colors help me see the offending buggers before they begin their upward assault. This might however be a regional thing, defined by the fact I live in the Lyme epidemic epicenter.

Yak wool sounds good.  I use Bridgedale Trekker socks which I find good, usually with a liner sock.  In days gone by, I used Holeproof Explorers, which were simple but very comfortable and very durable.

I think a range of different socks could be good.  I’ve sent a PM with more details about what I use and how I find it.  Good luck with the project!

I have two pairs of yak wool  socks (from Tibet). Relatively bulky and heavy but they work well even when wet.

Adding some cushioning/nylon layer on the ball and heel would be a bonus.

Natural colours….

More than anything else is a good fit. My feet fit inbetween the industry standard Large and Extra Large.

29.5Mondo

If I could get a fit in an inbetween size with some stretch that would be perfect for me. After that it is deep loop pile inners and reinforced heels and toes with extra interweavings of nylon and / or Acrylic for moisture transport. Not relevant for my ski boots as in those I only wear UL synthetic layers because I wear moulded inners but for my winter boots they have to come up the calf to just below the knee

Thanks guys for all the input. It’s really helpful to understand the reasons why you want certain things (e.g. light socks because of ticks).

Make some out of Muskox and I’ll purchase a pair 

I like a crew-height (less pebbles falling in against my skin), natural-ish (tan, brown, actually most relevant: dirt-colored) sock cushioned in the heel.

I want it to dry reasonably well and keep my feet warm when wet because I wade through streams in my low-cut trail runners.

Some nylon for durability and holding shape sounds good.  Some of the best pants and socks I’ve had were 20-30% nylon.

Important to me (and to the seller): that I can find a source again if, after a month or a hiking season, I decide I like them and want to stock up.  Finding a great deal on Sierra Trading Post, for instance, is great in some ways but a year later, I can’t find it again.  Example: Smart Wool makes a women’s sock, “Cable” (now Cable II) that is my wife’s daily-driver for office wear.  Every few years, I order up 6 new pairs because they’ve worked well, lasted a decent time, I know they fit her, and I can find them easily on the company’s or reseller’s websites.

Three pairs for US$20 would be a bargain.  For US$30 would be competitive.  For $40 would be over priced.

However much someone states yak wool is softer than merino, I’d have to try it to believe it.  Merino is about the limits of my wool tolerance – I’m a foot weenie in many ways and never liked traditional wool socks without a liner sock.  I’d be willing to try it, though.  In thicker socks, I’ve liked some poly/wool/nylon blends.

Thanks David.

I can 100% guarantee that 100% yak fabric is softer than any 100% merino fabric, but we are yet to see how this translates into socks.

The plan is to develop socks that are going to be there for the long term (with slight changes and color additions over time if improvements can be made), but we don’t want to discontinue a style and create a new one for no reason.

Cheers

Good to hear of your new venture. My favorite pairs of socks were SmartWool Light Hikers from 2000. When they wore thin in 2014, I bought more SmartWool socks in a similar model but they didn’t last a year. Now my favorite sock is Darn Tough Hunting Socks with ScentLok but Darn Tough is no longer using the ScentLok. Here are the specs: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Q1FS0I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s02?ie=UTF8&th=1&psc=1

My son used Darn Tough without ScentLok and one day’s use was an olfactory offense. I ended up purchasing ScentLok’s Merino Hiking Socks for him. Although the weave isn’t as well-done as Darn Tough, he can wear them on successive days like at camp without developing a stench.

Let me respond to your list of questions:

1. Do you want a high performance sport sock or a casual, wear everyday sock that is also good enough for hiking? HIGH PERFORMANCE THAT I CAN WEAR DAILY IN THE CITY.
2. What type of sock are you most interested in wearing? Crew hiking, quarter sport, low cut sport, ski sock, casual? CREW IS FINE. DURING THE SUMMER, I FOLD THEM DOWN TO AN ANKLE SOCK. I WOULD GET KNEE-HIGHS, TOO.
3. Do you choose bright colors/designs, earthy/natural colors, or blacks/greys? BLACK FOR CITY LIFE AND CITY SHOES. IN READING CHRISTOPHER’S POST ABOUT LIGHT COLORS & TICKS, I COULD GO FOR A LIGHT HEATHER GREY.
4. What kind of cushioning do you like to have? Light, medium, heavy? MEDIUM.
5. What’s most important in a sock? Warmth, comfort, great fit, durability, great design/colors, anti-bacterial, easy to wash etc. BLACK, MEDIUM CUSHION, LONG-LASTING, NOT STINKY.
6. What brands are you using now? DARN TOUGH EXCEPT I USE INJINJI FOR MY FIVEFINGER SHOES.
7. What price should a sock be? And for a pack of 3? AT ~$15/PAIR, I MIGHT BUY 8-12 PAIRS AT ONCE. AT $25/PAIR, I WOULD BUY ONE PAIR FIRST TO MAKE SURE I LIKE IT, THEN SAVE UP FOR A MASS PURCHASE. THE REASON WHY I LIKE HAVING MULTIPLE PAIRS OF THE SAME TYPE IS BECAUSE I DISLIKE MATCHING SOCKS WHEN DOING LAUNDRY.
8. Anything else you can think of? SCENTLOK IS AMAZING! ALSO, IF YOU WANT A BETA TESTER, I’M HAPPY TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK.

I had a Yak wool sweater I bought in Katmandu which I wore for many years – very ‘rough and ethnic’.  It was the warmest garment of it’s kind I have ever had, and I love wool/merino. The fiber is just so good at ‘insulation’.

This suggests to me that playing to Yak wools strengths is the way to go -> warm winter socks. They would excel all other fibers in this spec.

“IN READING CHRISTOPHER’S POST ABOUT LIGHT COLORS & TICKS”

I haven’t confirmed this about ticks, but I have repeatedly counted mosquitos on people’s backs while at Alaska gatherings.  The darkest garments have 3x to 6x the number of mosquitos on them as the lightest garments.

My cousin just posted this from the Spiti Valley in India:

Yak, Yak, Yakety, Yak. . .

(. . . don’t talk back)

In regard to insects it seems maybe a lightish grey could be a good option. This is also partly because it is possible to get yak fiber in a natural light grey (the most common is dark brown and black, with light brown and white also rarely available). The majority of the fiber could be completely undyed (better for the environment and probably better for the fiber itself because there is no damage done by the dye). It would look good and wouldn’t attract insects as much.

I am all for as little processing as possible, and I echo the call for warm, warm is good and for winter tall and warm is better

Also possibly a very thick ultra warm sock for those who use mukluks in the Far North

I thought I would update everyone to let you know we have just launched three socks on Kickstarter. Here is the link https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/peaktoplateau/yak-wool-hiking-and-ski-socks-the-next-revolution

It would be great to hear what everyone’s first impressions are.

Both the shorter socks look to  short to use with military issue boots but I did not see the height listed so they may be

Coming form NZ I would have expected a proper, tall, very warm gum-boot sock which would be perfect to wear with mukluks. This is an important issue for me personally as my last 2 pair of Thor-Lo Arctics are almost gone and that is a model that has been deleted from the range and not ever being made again

Pricing is reasonable if the socks perform as described

How to you back up the warmth claim? Per volume? Per unit of weight? How does wool yak resists compression? Why is it warmer?

Warmth is determined by a thermal resistance test. We have done testing with Intertek in Hong Kong. Basically  you are measuring how much heat transfers through yak wool fabric and comparing it to others.

Can you share the results compared to other fibers? Are these tests on knitted fabrics? On socks applications?

If you can back up a claim that your socks are x% warmer than socks made out of other wools for the same thickness, I’ll be buying some pairs.

I’m asking questions like that because marketing rarely lives up to its claims. I tested a whole bunch of insoles made of alternative materials for thermal resistance under load last year: sheepwool punched foam, alpaca felt, etc. The one that performed the best was the cheap good old double density felt with needle punched aluminized layer.

@stefanwarnaar
I received my beanie and neck warmer from MassDrop and really like them. Although it is a wee bit itchy–I’m super sensitive–it is definitely softer than merino wool and I could comfortably wear the neck warmer all day. The navy blue color is beautiful.

I’ll probably get the baselayers, too, since I want more natural fibers next to my skin.

I’m looking forward to the socks from the Kickstarter program.