grizzly bear surprise attack

I’ve thrown a few 9mm rounds down the range as well but not thousands!  Still enough to know that stopping a grizz charging at @ 35 mph with a pistol is the definition of chancy.

A 250+ gr. solid from a .44-caliber revolver (or larger) will absolutely kill anything on the North American continent, period… but that all depends on making the shot hit the right spot.  I wouldn’t want to try it with a shotgun, either; the target is simply too small and too fast.

there’s 18 00 shot at @ 54 gr ea for @ 1000 gr total in a 3.5″ 10ga. mag. Not sure how much the slug alone would weigh but should be @ that 1000 gr #. Still…

I wouldn’t want to try it with a shotgun, either; the target is simply too small and too fast.

Agreed.

For the sake of clarity, for those that don’t know: neither the marginal projectile weight of buckshot nor the total mass of shot in the charge matters in this particular case because the shot mass isn’t the problem: it’s still just the ability to hit the target.  Within a couple of yards, the shot cloud from a 10g is effectively a single, low-density projectile, and it acts just like a slug or any other singular projectile on its way to the target.  That interception path is the problem; not the terminal ballistics of the load.  That’s really why bear spray works so well, so often: the chance of it hitting the bear is WAY higher than the chance of a bullet hitting a bear, for most people.  You also have an incredibly long deterrent duration with the spray: with a gun, you will have – possibly – one instantaneous chance.  Miss, and you’re done.

So, recap.  When in bear country:

• Don’t sneak up on bears.
• Bring a friend that is even better at not sneaking up on bears than you are.
• Don’t invite bears to your parties.
• Make sure your friend is even better at not inviting bears to parties than you are.
• Carry the best bear spray you can find.
• Make your friend carry two canisters, since they’re so much better at everything than you are.

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Yeah 2 canisters is good. Everyone I know who actually used bear spray dumped the entire canister or most of it in the bear. Imagine the hike out….</p>
Edit – Mike are you saying there is actually a policy on how to deal with a grizzly stealing your game? I’d wondered about that. Doesn’t seem to happen often in Alaska. I can’t remember but I think the basic system here is you shoot the bear if you have a tag, if not tough luck.

• Don’t sneak up on bears.

I sneak up on bears all the time. My videos bear this out (pun intended).

Now you tell me.

Note: to be fair, they sneak up on me too. One was about 2 paces away from sticking his head in my tent this summer when we made eye contact. Reciprocal freakouts ensued.

Once hikers behind me spooked a bear. The bear then walked up the trail and almost bumped into an 8 year old boy playing quietly by the trail. Fortunately the bear took off. But the kid was crying and somebody accidentally discharged a bear spray which made a mess.

I was so stressed out I set up camp, cooked dinner and put my group of teenagers to bed without noticing my co leader was missing. Turns out she was feeling bad and she’d fallen asleep in the middle of dinner. She slept through all the teenagers racket. Then at 2 AM I woke her up because her son was feeling sick. I was half awake and suddenly my co leader is apologizing for falling asleep… I was very confused for a moment there. Good times.

Edit – Mike are you saying there is actually a policy on how to deal with a grizzly stealing your game? I’d wondered about that. Doesn’t seem to happen often in Alaska. I can’t remember but I think the basic system here is you shoot the bear if you have a tag, if not tough luck.

Phillip- yeah if a grizzly chased a hunter off of a kill site, we would issue them a replacement tag.  Don’t want to give the impression that it was an everyday occurrence, but we would typically spend a 4-5 day hitch in the backcountry patrolling the early rifle season and we would almost always have an incident where we replaced a license.

We don’t have our grizzly season back yet, but the “chase the rifle shot” occurrences will definitely be decreasing when we do.

Now you tell me.

You live in Alaska; you’re supposed to just know these things!  Don’t you guys have, like, a rulebook or something?  A pamphlet?  Maybe a colorful cartoon handout?  “Fun And Games With Mr. Bear – or – How Not To Get Eaten”..?  I’ve never flown to Alaska, but I imagine that bear-awareness is part of the in-flight speech.  “Life vests are stowed under the seats; exits are located at the front and rear of the plane.  In the event of a safe landing, be prepared for immediate assault by wandering bears, which can be found on any portion of the tarmac and concourse, including the duty-free shop.  If at any time during the flight you feel nauseous…”

That interception path is the problem; not the terminal ballistics of the load.  That’s really why bear spray works so well, so often: the chance of it hitting the bear is WAY higher than the chance of a bullet hitting a bear, for most people.  You also have an incredibly long deterrent duration with the spray: with a gun, you will have – possibly – one instantaneous chance.  Miss, and you’re done.

That may be the best description of the ‘problem’ I’ve ever read. Thorough yet concise=nice!

Hey and to add to it as an aside regarding 10 ga. and presumably other shotguns as well; the steel shot doesn’t seem to distort and therefore fan out anywhere near as well as the old lead shot so the ‘cloud’ or pattern remains tighter and smaller out well past the effective range. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a scattergun.

2 cans eh?

Hey and to add to it as an aside regarding 10 ga. and presumably other shotguns as well; the steel shot doesn’t seem to distort and therefore fan out anywhere near as well as the old lead shot so the ‘cloud’ or pattern remains tighter and smaller out well past the effective range. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a scattergun.

Shot cup technology is amazing, these days; that, and increasingly-tight chokes have rapidly decreased overall pattern sizes.

And yeah, two cans, for exactly the reason mentioned above.  It would be my luck to empty an entire can at a bear, run it off, change and launder my pants, and then find another, larger, meaner bear right over the next hill.

Note to self: carry extra pants.

In the event of a safe landing, be prepared for immediate assault by wandering bears, which can be found on any portion of the tarmac…

Alaska Airlines flight hits bear on runway in Yakutat

I saw a picture of the bear and it definitely looked worse than the cowling on the turbine.

In Alaska you are allowed to kill a bear “in defense of [your] life and property” (called a DLP). A game animal you have harvested is not considered ‘property’ so you are not allowed to kill a bear in order to protect it (unless you have a bear hunting harvest tag with you already). You are encouraged to try to dissuade the bear by non-lethal, ethical means. If that doesn’t work don’t think you get a new harvest ticket/tag for your lost meat.

there is an article that documents bear encounters and hand gun calibers.
https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/update-handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attack-93-cases-97-effective/#axzz6gkFe9DwT

That’s an… interesting… article.  I’ll just leave it at that.

“Stephen Herrero’s book notes the state of Alaska attempts to collect  information and record every single bear attack that occurs in the state and has been doing so for decades or scores of years.  The single most effective way to survive a bear attack based on this record is pepper spray. I’ve thrown a few 9mm rounds down the range as well but not thousands! Still enough to know that stopping a grizz charging at @ 35 mph with a pistol is the definition of chancy.

Maybe an Ithaca mag 10 with 2 rounds of 00 and a slug and still think you’d have better odds with pepper spray. Not exactly light weight gear either.

Seems like the difference is that use of a firearm is picking a fight that you might lose even if you manage to kill the bear. Pepper spray otoh just changes the bear’s mind about the necessity of messing with you. The skunk defense.”

The conflation of his studies of bear spray use on bear encounters and the data on bear attacks and guns was done by “journalists”.

Bear spray won’t work in wind, or in a tent, multiple times if being repeatably threatened, isn’t great to leave in a hot car truck and goes bad with age.

Guns aren’t always legal in some areas, require a responsible person, cost more upfront, and don’t save the planet like bear spray.

If you can stomach reading a study at a website called Ammoland it lists 93 cases of bear attacks and defense using handguns many of which did not make Herrero’s studies. Of those there were only 3 failures. It included 5 instances of defense agains black bear using 22 rimfire and one failure against, not surprisingly , a polar bear. More common calibers like 9mm have worked.

Neither spray nor a gun is a panacea, but if faced with giant cows in the trail I would want both.

I will not go without bear spray again after coming in contact with a female and two cubs.  My daughter and son were hiking with me in Glacier a few years back.  We got an early start and were one of the first groups on the trail that morning up to Grinnel Glacier. The hike started out in open territory but soon the trail narrowed and our visibility decreased.  We noticed huckleberry bushes were everywhere.  We rounded the corner and that’s when my son, who was out ahead of us, turned and motioned that he saw a bear.   I stopped and looked right and there she was just sitting off at our 3 o’clock, my guess she was no more than 20 feet away and we never noticed her.  My son was fortunate that she did not have any intention of attacking but rather just sit there.  At the time we didn’t know if it was a male or female but I had done my research (I’ve read Stephen Herrero over and over), and the stats were on our side that the chances of a bear attack on a party of 3 or more are very rare, so we decided to slowly continue walking.  As soon as we passed her,  I turned to see what she was doing,  and at that moment two cubs poked their heads out of the bushes.  I’ve been in some sticky situations before in the military and this bear encounter is spades over anything I’ve been subjected to.   Lesson – Carry the bear spray and know how to use it and carry it.