Gossamer g4-20 vs. Kumo??

I have been using a Kumo.

I like it. I also have an older style Murmur hyperlight and the Mariposa (for winter trips).

I have used just about every style of MLD packs in the past also.

I like Gossamer Gear packs..

I love the shoulder pouches on my Kumo. Something so minimal and meek but i keep my garmin explorer + in one of them. I emailed Gossamer Gear last week asking if i could get the G4-20 custom with those should pouches.. they told me No Way.

Sucks because that was deal breaker for me.. as of right now.

The Kumo tends to get my shoulders a little bit tender towards the end of a decent days hiking with about 15 – 18 lbs. Nothing of a major concern.. i dont think, just my only thought of something negative about it.  Again.. it does not deter me from using it and it is my go to pack for 3 seasons now. I removed the hip belt on mine, maybe if i used it that would help? Doesnt bother me that much though to add it. I mostly hang at night, so i get my under quilt and top quilt and hammock and everything else in there with no problems at all!  If your gear is dialed in.. it swallows it up, so dont worry about having space. So far its been durable for me.. im a weekend warrior but i have spoken to a few thru hikers out on the trail that were carrying the Kumo and they raved about it also.. and all have said it has held up nicely.  One fella was on his 2nd thruhike with it and it looked used but nothing wrong other then usual wear and dirt.

I would say go for it. They have one style on sale now for $119.. cant beat that. You could always sell it on gear swap and get some of your money back if you use it and dont like it.

Here is a picture of it packed and ready to go. I also carry a helinox ground zero chair on some trips and you can see it packed in side pocket.  Thats packed with everything including my food for 3 days.. I did not put water bottle in pocket yet.. but you get the idea.

Got me looking at the G4-20 again, lol. I am wondering if it would be possible to cut that hip belt off? Anyone own one? Thoughts?

I like the weight of the pack, but concerned on longer treks it may not handle the load.   Right now I’m at 7.5 base, 18 including consumables but that’s only 4-5 days of food.   Some sections of the PCT and CDT I’ve heard you need to care more than a weeks worth of food (plus bear can) and the southern sections 3 times the water which would push the load to 26lbs with my current gear.

DB, do you know the max you’ve carried with the kumo?   It’s because of this I thought of the g4-20.  About same weight but 5 lb more max load limit.  just $60 more.

Also looking at the Virga2.  Lighter than the Kumo by 6 oz., $20 more, but still 25lb limit.

Probably 20- 23lbs. I agree.. This is why I was also considering the G4-20.

For longer trips where I will need to carry more food and water..25 lbs give or take..so maybe the G4-20 will be a better option, especially if need a bear can.

The problem with the Virga 2 compared to the G4 and Kumo is that it is huge. Even with compression straps, if you can’t fill it, the thing collapses on itself.

YMMV but I’m uncomfortable much over 20# in a frameless pack even with the hipbelt.

I like my Kumo. It’s very shallow front to back (GG lists it we 4.5” thick) which helps keep your center of mass close to your body. I’ve carried a Bareboxer Contender in it with 4 days worth of food and found it quite comfortable. I know that lots of people use Kumos on long through hikes but I feel like the materials are nowhere close to the quality used in the cottage makers. The fabric feels thin and the buckles are very small and seem to be made from a soft plastic. It doesn’t give me confidence in the durability of the pack.

I like the wide, removable hipbelt on the Kumo.

The diagonal pocket is nice too. You can put stuff you want easier access to on one side and other items can be more secure on the other side.

BJC, That was one of my concerns with the Virga also…a little weird to have 54L in a frameless rated for 25lb max.

Matthew, thanks for the insight on the Kumo material.  How old is yours?  GG site lists both the Kumo and the G4 as 100D Robic.  I thought I read that they changed the fabric a year or two ago due to durability.

I’m also considering the Talon44 which is on sale for 120.  It’s heavier but max load is 40lb.  My Atmos 65 rode well last fall with a 32-40lb load but at 65L the “fill the space” concern arises and last time I kept track of everything used and dropped base from 16.2 to 8 or less….LOTS of space filler obviously.

It’s interesting that the Talon and G4 list the same volume (42 L) and similar material (100D) but nearly 10 oz. difference and the talon is twice as thick(11in vs. 5.5)….is it me or does something sound fishy on how the volumes are being advertised.??

At the price of the Talon, I may get it AND the g4-20……How do you know when you have a problem???  Is 10 packs too many? :)

The Talon has a frame. I’m guessing that is why it weighs more.

Manufacturers measure pack volume differently.

My Kumo is a couple years old. 2017?

It’s interesting that the Talon and G4 list the same volume (42 L) and similar material (100D) but nearly 10 oz. difference and the talon is twice as thick(11in vs. 5.5)….is it me or does something sound fishy on how the volumes are being advertised.??

I think Osprey quote the volume of the body of their packs, without counting the pockets. Certainly, their packs seem to have greater actual volume to quoted volume compared to most pack makers.

Nothing fishy at all I hope. Just an inconsistency between the two. The volumes are clearly stated on both sites. Osprey quotes internal volume as The Volume. The other adds up all the cavities and quotes that, but the internal cavity volume is available for both. You just need to look under specs to make sure you get what you want.

IMO the Talon 44 is a nice pack but 40lbs max limit? haha good luck with that. Prob closer to 30lbs comfortably.

Th G4-20 is nice and roomy… definitely wouldn’t say it runs small. I like the roll top. The medium is 17.5 from center of belt to straps. Pockets are easy to reach, and I think the material is fine. I never got the chance to try the Kumo, although I looked at purchasing one for a while.

You could cut the hip belt off, but it’s pretty permanently sewn in from what it looks like lol, so it might not look great if you care about that. It’ll probably save you 3-4 oz? If you want the option of the hip belt being removable, then the Kumo may be better. I personally am weary about cutting anything off a backpack besides some excess webbing… makes me anxious!

Shameless plug though… I’m selling a G4-20 in the Gear Swap :)

I went a ahead and ordered the kumo (on sale/clearance).  I’m still considering a second winter/alpine pack when I have to carry more as right now my base + max consumables (for 6-7 day resupply stretches) is hitting right 24.9…..If the trail requires that much, I would probably switch back to the Atmos 65, though something right in between with 30-35lb max may still be in the cards

Christian keep me posted if you don’t sell the G4-20, I may be back.

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Nice. Id be interested in your thoughts and feedback about the Kumo… initial and after some use of course.  I think you will like it. Good luck and enjoy!</p>

Will do, dirtbag.

I also reached out to GG to confirm if max load is the main body and exterior pockets only and not the belt and harness pockets.  I had included things in my max pack load weight of 24.9lb that I would be carrying in the belt and harness pockets (phone, knife, etc. = 1 lb)

They are part of my base wt, but I’m assuming those don’t count towards the pack limit since they aren’t putting any strain on the pack.  I never separated them in the past….but then I was never pushing the limits of an UL pack to be concerned.

UL definitely makes you consider your gear closer and differently.

WOW! That was FAST RESPONSE even with them at limited staff.

“Max Load includes everything!

But how you disperse the weight will definitely have an effect on perceived comfort.”

Still seems odd that the belt pouches would have any bearing on the packs max load.

Lol. Yeah i dont use the hip belt. Though i do carry their hipster. I like that i can dump my pack and keep the hipster on me.. be it around camp, exploring the area or short day hike from camp..

Ok. Enjoy!!

Got the Kumo today….GG has been awesome on responsiveness and delivery!!

Thank you to everyone that replied and gave input/feedback!!

Pack w/ sitlite pad: 683.2g/24.1 oz (listed at 25 oz)

Base: 10.43 lb, Consumable: 10.05, Total: 20.5lb

I’m looking at options to shave maybe another pound off (quilt, tarp, etc.)

I fit all my gear minus my puffy (it hasn’t come in yet) including things that I would normally carry on myself (phone, etc.) and still had space in flap pocket, hip pockets, and 1 shoulder pocket.  Main compartment was pretty near max.  I will have to work more on how to load things and think I can ditch the hip belt/pockets all together if it rides well without , if not maybe replace with a simpler belt.

Hoping weather holds to hike 10-13 miles Monday with this load.  The bit I walked around the house with it loaded the weight was comfy but it did pull on the shoulders more….will have to get used to frame less.

I’ll post pros/cons after I’ve taken it out on the trail.

Keep in mind frameless packs carry very differently depending on how you pack them. I find that I get huge payoffs by experimenting with the location of heavy items, particularly food. In my Kumo I like to split my food into two flat bags. I put a larger one packed very flat against my lower back a few inches up from the hipbelt and another farther up between my shoulder blades.  YMMV but there’s a day/night difference when I get it right compared to how I pack in a pack with a frame (one big food bag up medium high against my back).

Thanks for the pointer Matthew.  I will give that a try and see how it feels.

Just packed my Kumo for my overnight trip tomorrow around Nuclear Lake.

13.9 lbs.. with food and water. I even have my helinox ground 0 chair for lounging in camp.  My Dutch chameleon hammock, Hammock Gear DCF standard tarp with doors, 40 degree hammock gear premium underquilt. 40 degree Enlightened Equipment Enigma top quilt.. and i also threw a large uberlight inflatable pad in there for backup in case i have to go to the ground.  My Ursack is packed with my food and that weighed in at 1.7 lbs.. probably a little extra food in there so i may go over that one more time.. I’ll see.  Anyway. I may do a “whats in my Kumo”  video when i get to my camp spot tomorrow.. see how i feel.

Well have fun on your trip.. take pictures and let us know how you make out.. with the trip and the Kumo!

Posted my trip report in the post trip report forum if anyone interested.  I love that Kumo..

Will have to check out your post-trip.  I got stormed out here in the midwest Monday, so have to wait till Saturday to test the Kumo