Good U/Lrain jacket to use as both rain jacket and windshirt.

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Sounds like you’re looking for an Enlightened Equipment Visp for $200…

In my experience no rain shell breathes well enough to replace a windshirt.  The closest thing might be Gore Tex Shakedry but the shell isn’t durable and it’s expensive, so I think a good UL rain shell is better served wearing only in the rain.

My 2011 Houdini has been used and abused.  If it gets an abrasion or pinhole, it still works just fine, so I don’t sweat it.  If it was a rainshell and I got a hole in it, I’d be more upset.

Berghaus Hyper 100. Doesn’t have quite the waterproof rating as the MB Versalite, but the MVTR breathability rating is 50,000 and it weighs a tad under 4 oz (M). 3 layer. Supreme quality. https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/mens-clothing-c1/mens-superlight-shell-windtops-c49/superlight-jackets-c196/hyper-100-shell-jacket-p7219

After having a scary experience in unexpected sleet in a slog over a pass and a basin with suncups that slowed me down a lot, I now go with 3 layer Event or equivalent for sure. Sweating out was not an issue; hypothermia was. Get something solid even if it weighs a few ounces more, I think.

Lightweight, breathable, cheap, but fragile.  Not for bushwhacking or carrying a full pack, but for trail running and hiking it’s a cheap alternative to the $200 plus mainstream offerings.

love my frogg toggs

I am with brad.  shakedry is *almost* as good as dedicated wind shirt but it’s also expensive and fragile.  I am happy to carry an extra few ounces to have been performance and to minimize the wear/tear on my rainshell.

The highest CFM waterproofs are going to be some variations of Neoshell marketed as Powershield Pro (same membrane but higher CFM and lower HH). The highest you can get generally is 3CFM. Still not a great wind shirt but it will let some air pass through. I suspect the new Pertex Shield Air is also just neoshell being licensed to Pertex so they can use it with one of their extra light face fabrics. Your best bet would likely be Yamatomichi

I’ve been researching this as well.  It would be good to get Stephen Seeber’s take on this.  I believe the MVTR on the EE Visp is 75,000.  I ordered one for this purpose.  From what I’ve learned so far, performance-wide there is no substitute for using a rain shell and wind shirt differently for their intended purpose. However, the benefits of being able to use one garment for both is attractive.  I’m hoping the Visp’s MVTR along with the pit zips (paired w Alpha Direct) can get me there.  7D and unproven waterproofness is a concern, but I guess we’ll see.  I’ll chime back in when I learn something useful.

I’d definitely be interested in your findings. My old Houdini (4 oz) is going strong- breathes very well, sheds wind and light (short) precip. I pair it with an older Rab three layer Flashpoint (6 oz).

For 10 oz tough to beat, BUT if there is a viable option that a single garment would work- color me interested :)

That’s a really good combo Mike. I have an old Rab Demand, which is a few ounces heavier than the Flashpoint but still works very well indeed in rain and sleet.

I’ve been really happy with it, probably 7-8 years now and still ticking :)

Yeah, I wear my old Houdini all the time; it’s even older than yours–not a bit of wear! I just toss it in my drawer too.

following with interest, i’ve been eyeing the visp.

i know they don’t make the rab flashpoint any more but the closest to it that i’ve found is the OR helium. tempted to get that and sell my columbia rain jacket but then trying to explain that to my wife will be a challenge when i haven’t work the columbia much and it’s still pretty new…. same goes for my columbia windshirt in exchange for a houdini or a BD alpine start…..

I have a Helium, it’s OK, but the old Flashpoint was a full three layer jacket for about the same weight. Performance is much better with the Flashpoint (3-layer)

too bad they don’t make it anymore….

For day hikes in Colorado, I have been using a Marmot Pertex Quantum wind shirt that I apply a spray-on DWR treatment to. This not only breathes well, but it is pretty good at shedding light rain. It won’t do very well in a sustained heavy downpour, but for our 15-20 minute afternoon rains, it’s the bee’s knees at 3.4 ounces. But if I was backpacking, I would take an actual rain jacket along, in addition to the wind shirt (2 pieces for 2 different conditions).

Pick one-a real rain jacket or a wind shirt. There are wind shirts that will do ok in a light rain/drizzle, none that I know of that will do well in real rain-heck many rain jackets used by UL don’t do well in real rain.

Agree with Brad W.

I wrote this opinion recently on another forum.  (UK based, so it rains a fair amount and regularly):

The main reason I don’t ever wear such a very light waterproof when it’s not raining, is that like any fabric with a membrane/coated fabric/dwr , it’s performance has a finite lifetime. Just the act of wearing them degrades DWR and UL coatings. Depending on the type the durability varies, but generally the lighter/cheaper the least durable.

Wearing a UL waterproof when you don’t need to is like using a non rechargeable torch in the daytime. You are just wasting it’s useable life for no real reason.

In a sporting situation or “special” long distance trip I can see this is a way to save weight. But most people aren’t using them in this way. The number of people I’ve met who said their OR Helium or Montane minimus, Alpkit Gravitas etc wasn’t actually waterproof when it really counted… I have a similar weight Berghaus waterproof I’ve had for a few years. It stays in a drybag unless it’s actually raining.

It seems nuts to me to spend hundreds of ££ on a UL waterproof and then wear it out so it’s not so good the times you actually need it to perform.

When you can carry a windshirt which only weighs 80g and is more comfortable and will last a long time.

A windshirt can also be worn over your waterproof to protect it when bushwhacking. And used comfortably on its own as modesty wear when laundering other clothes.