Full Outfit from Patagonia, L.L. Bean, Darn Tough, and Outdoor Research

[Michael F]

Was about to pull the trigger on a lot of Arc’Teryx clothing, when after doing some research found that their customer service was decent at best, and spotty to non existent at worst.(I don’t want to debate this, I’ve read enough and personally spoke with enough people to come to this conclusion) With their super high prices, I decided that I’d like to spend my money somewhere else, despite genuinely loving a lot of their great gear, …I’m just not gonna buy a $750USD jacket to have them ask me for $200-300 to repair a zipper or fix a small tear, if they’ll even fix it(I don’t care if this is not your experience with them, I have spoken to enough people where it was) they also have some really shady practices…such a shame too…

I have however learned that Patagonia and the like will replace almost anything, with virtually no, or very few questions asked. I have heard hundreds of stories where 20+year old jackets are repaired for free, or even entirely replaced with the new model due to a failed zipper or other small defect. This is where I will be spending my money. I have heard OR’s (Outdoor Research) warranty is just as great as Patagonia’s, and that L.L. Bean’s is the best, so their gear will be included as well as Darn Tough. As far as I’ve learned these four warranties are clearly the top 4 in the outdoor gear business.

With 4 great brands to choose from I should be able to get all of my layers from any of these 4 companies…So I will be updating this thread with what gear I choose and for what purposes I intend to use it, So that I can get advice from more knowledgeable peeps before I buy anything.

Will update soon, but am posting the OP now so that people can recommend items from said companies.

disclaimer: Before anyone recommends MSR, Mountain Hardwear, REI, The North Face, etc. I am aware that they CLAIM to have warranties on par with the above companies but they are either for a limited amount of time, or are in fact less stellar than they would have you believe. Again I know someone here will have a different experience with one of these companies, however I have spoken to enough people and read enough customer reviews, as well as the actual warranty policies to understand that on a broader scale these companies just don’t have the same coverage as Patagonia, L.L. Bean or Outdoor Research, and Darn Tough.

I’ll go ahead and say that unless I overlooked something somewhere… these are the definitive top 4 highly reliable, with little to no questions asked/no hassle warranties available…so that is where my money will be going.

[Bob Shuff]

Are you sure you don’t want to debate your choice of the 4 companies your mention? Because it sounds kinda like a backhanded challenge.

That being said, I like a lot from Patagonia, and some but not all the darn tough socks I have.  I’ve been using my son’s old LL Bean lunchbox for years after he stopped usong lunchboxes – do they make lightweight outdoor clothes? I might be getting them mixed up with some other preppy catalogs we get this time of year.  I gave up my Seattle Sombrero for another brand that didn’t make your cut.

So tongue removed from cheek, I think these are all great companies, and anyone who stands by their product deserves loyalty, if the product fits the need/use.  What kind of hiking in what environment(s)? I think that will get you much better advice to curate your best of the best clothing system.  Patagonia Alpha 3 jacket, down, fleece or primaloft are all great choices.  Wool or synthetic baselayer? Just how much is your budget?

[Michael F]

Um.. I guess I’m open to limited debate but I don’t really want to go back and forth like crazy. I’m more open to suggestions of companies I have not mentioned here.

As for budget, it is fairly high. I have decent amount of disposable income, however I am very very careful about how I use it. I could waste money and just buy a crapload of stuff, and throw out the bad, and replace the good when it wears out…but I loathe the concept of waste and enjoy finding the “best” values. That being said I am probably willing to spend more than most people, to give you an idea.

My goal is to assemble some good winter attire for alpine use. I’m not a climber, so these will be for alpine hikes, not climbs. I live in NC and our mountains are formidable but nothing crazy like CO, or WA, etc. (our highest el is 6k ft) I’m open to getting little odds and ends and small pieces from other companies but the bulk of my important articles needs to be from these companies..or comparable sources.

I eventually once I am wise enough to do so, plan to stay for extended periods in these conditions and locales so keep that in mind that this gear will eventually be used for 5-10+ day excursions …even though in the beginning I won’t be doing that (don’t wanna die cause I unwisely rushed myself :) any suggestions need to keep that in mind. I also plan to cautiously expand my adventures to surrounding eastern states(within reasonable distances), so nothing too specialized for only NC …needs to be slightly versatile within a certain small radius…and lastly Thank you! for helping!

totally random side question anyone know outdoor companies that make good briefs underwear for guys? this style is more anatomically suited for me but are harder to find..I’ve have yet to find any low rise or even string bikini cut, made with proper materials for this use…also do not laugh at me please lol I’m aware they look funny but its not a style contest
if anyone knows anything similar to the AnatoFree or AnatoMax style but with proper materials for hiking please let me know

[BCap]

Things I have experience with:

Patagucci capilene is great — and there is a sale on last years model now.  For backpacking I’ve always used a crewneck lightweight for a top (hiking) and a midweight bottoms (sleeping).

The R1 is fine.  I love the deep zip on the hoody, though I’ve decided I hate the hood, so I prefer the pullover.

The OR Ferrosi pants are great if they fit you.

Darn Tough socks are fine, I’ve been happy with them.

 

[Brett Peugh]

OR has the best warranty of all the companies you have listed.  Buy Darn Tough for wool socks.  Get the Echo baselayers from OR.  Patagonia does have better fleeces so maybe get one from them as it should really never wear out.  Get your rainwear from OR because if it fails you can get new pieces.  I really never use down while hiking so if you want something for winter car camping or around town just get a big puffy hooded 650 fill from LL Bean.

[Paul S.]

You’ll get more specific suggestions if you list out all the layers you think you’ll need for the conditions.

Those 4 companies all have great gear, so it’s more how do they fit your body type?  You’ll have to try them on to find out.  If you have an “average” build then it’s less of an issue.  E.g Patagonia is known for a “climber’s build” for some gear (long, narrow) but they also have a lot of clothing cut for the average American.

[Bob Shuff]

It’s good to read up on Andrew Skurka’s layering system if you need a place to start.  He did a video recently as well, but I think his book/blog is more thought out.

Going bottom to top and inside to out:

1. I’m looking for the best hiking socks.  I have a DT mini-crew sock that’s a little thinner that works better for me (I wear trail runners).  Every time I wear a thicker DT sock I get a hotspot.  The problem is I don’t recall what models they are, and if you look on their website they have a bunch to choose from.  They are too expensive to just experiment with.  Hopefully someone here can advise.
2. +1 on Patagonia Cap baselayers.  I have some smartwool/icebreaker, but I’m not convinced it’s any better, and I know it won’t last as long.  +1 on the R1 as a baselayer in cold or mid layer for most of my hiking in SoCal.  Maybe a similar climate to NC?  Mountains are a little higher, but year-round mild.  I know it gets colder in NC at some point in the winter.
3. I am experimenting with a Patagonia Level 3A jacket, but will have to wait for cooler weather to decide if it is better than a fleece or down puffy.  This would definitely be mountains with expected weather, and hiking in cold wet conditions.  I have a superlight Montbell puffy anorak, but would only consider that for in-camp use.  I know LL Bean has a wide selection of insulation pieces, but not I’m sure they really compete with Patagonia or some other top-end vendors.  I think you need some insulation on the trail and other insulation in camp, but depending on your style you might just have trail insulation and rely on your quilt/bag in camp.
4. I have an Patagonia Alpine Houdini as my current rain jacket, but it’s minimal.  I’d be interested to hear a better solution that’s still lightweight, and I don’t have experience with OR except that old Seattle Sombrero from the 80s.  I am intrigued by the OutDry.  Does OR or anyone else have something like that, in a color other than white?

 

[Michael F]

Okay, I’m Starting my list with Base Layer Tops and Bottoms:

1.
Patagonia Men’s Capilene® Thermal Weight One-Piece Suit Base Layer (12 Oz)
http://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-capilene-thermal-weight-one-piece-suit/43701.html
$199.00

I’m interested in this piece despite the downsides of it being a once piece, but at 12 Oz it is lighter than a mid-weight top + bottom (around 14 Oz) and is going to be a lot warmer if I need it

 

2.
Patagonia Men’s Capilene® Midweight Zip-Neck (7.5 Oz)
http://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-capilene-midweight-zip-neck/44446.html?dwvar_44446_color=DAFX&cgid=mens-baselayers-midweight#tile-2=&start=1&sz=24
$69.00

+

Patagonia Men’s Capilene® Midweight Bottoms (6.8 Oz)
http://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-capilene-midweight-bottoms/44485.html?dwvar_44485_color=NVYB&cgid=mens-baselayers-midweight#tile-2=&start=1&sz=24
$59.00

Solid, dependable, highly recommended by several BPL members, one question though, how does the weight of these pieces compare to other companies? Exceptionally light? Typical? Exceptioanlly heavy? If someone would advise I go with something just as good but lighter form another brand, I’d be open to that.

3.
*Can someone reccomend to me some good lightweight Merino Wool baser layer tops and bottoms?

I’d like my third set of Base top and bottoms to be made from Lightweight Merino Wool

[Paul S.]

The Cap Thermals are lighter and warmer than the midweight. The thermal tops work as a nice light mid layer when it’s too warm for moving in a full fleece. R1 is too hot for most 3 season trips as a mid layer.

[Michael F]

This is for winter alpine use in NC and other nearby states

[David Colbert]

I can attest to the warranty reputations of those four brands.

I’m a big fan of OR in particular . Not only is their Infinite Guarantee exactly what it’s called, but their gear is very high quality, and a good value. Many pieces are also lightweight, although they probably don’t meet the definition of ultra light.

You could put together a great kit with Darn Tough socks, Capilene base layers, and top it off with outer layers from OR. I like the OR Echo T-shirts too, and I have more hats and mitts from OR than I care to mention, some of which are still in regular rotation after 20 years of use.

I like the Darn Tough 1/4 ultralight socks for hiking with trail runners or biking. They fit great, dry fast, and are literally darn tough. I wore out a pair and got a replacement with no questions, although I had to mail in the worn out pair. I also have taller socks that I wear with boots nearly every day. After more than two years of near daily use, I still haven’t worn them out.

For underwear, I recommend ExOfficio. I have both the Give and Go and the sport styles. Both are great, but the sport mesh dries faster and is probably lighter.

I have wool base layers from SmartWool and Ibex. Both are very nice, but for what it’s worth, I prefer synthetics for comfort. The odor resistance of wool is outstanding, but if you asked me to recommend one over the other, I would recommend Capilene.

Someone made a comment about fit being different. I find Patagonia’s fit to be trim and OR’s fit to be more average. For the LL Bean pieces that I have, I would describe the fit as generous. For example, I wear a medium in most Patagonia tops with a trim fit, but a small OR top fits trim, and a small LL Bean top feels roomy.

David

 

[Michael F]

If I plan to sometimes wear the Nana Puff Hoody over my R2 fleece should I go up a size?

[BCap]

Possibly a silly question: Does North Carolina have any alpine zones?  I’m not familiar with that area, but was always under the impression that it was mountainous but all well below treeline with a moderate, though humid (and thus raw) climate.  Sorry if this is off topic.

[Nathan Watts]

Why not just list out the Arcteryx pieces that you honed in on and  were just about to pull the trigger on before your last minute change of heart

then people can suggest similar pieces from your preferred brand and their experience with them.

[Michael F]

I seem to keep coming across this misunderstanding. The ultimate goal of this thread is to very soon from now post, like later today or tonight…. my full list of layer options and to have that gear greenlighted by the more experienced guys here.

I didnt mean to make it look as though Im entirely lost on what I need.
I just wanted a final look over by the members here since I’m still a beginner.

I dont so much “not know” what to get or what I need. I kinda started this thread so that when I post my complete layers breakdown, I can have that info vetted and make sure I didnt get something wrong.

The reason I posted this thread before I was done shopping was so that I could ask questions as I shop for my gear, and was interested to see some suggestions from people who felt like weighing in, but I’m necessarily heavily dependent on those suggestions, I was just interested in hearing what gear people might suggest, and I could evaluate and see if I agreed or disagreed, as I am simultaneously evaluating pieces I find on my own.

To anyone with knowledge of the Nano Puff series …if I plan to sometimes wear my Nanopuff hoody over my r2 fleece, should I go one size up?

[Michael F]

and to answer the guy who asked about the tree lines here in NC…ummm..yes, and no…There kind of are alpine zones, but not really? It’s hard to explain…our ecology is how you say weird…our tree lines are higher due to the temperature but there are certain bald spots due to other factors …but the answer would still be “no” to keep it simple, but kind of yes?… sometimes in certain areas you could call it an alpine zone I guess…more so in the southern Appalachian states like SC, GA, etc. where I plan to go as well, though not right away, so I’m keeping those areas in mind as I shop for my gear..

[BCap]

I found the nano puff pullover to be very baggy and it would fit over a few layers np. Dunno about the other variants.

EDIT: spelling

[Michael F]

Went ahead and ordered:

Patagonia Capilene Thermal Weight Zip Neck Base Layer
Patagonia R2 Fleece Jacket Midlayer
Patagonia Nanopuff Pullover Midlayer

Payed a little over 270 for all…all of this stuff was 50-60 percent off!

[Owen]

Fit is so subjective. It’s hard to gauge without height and weight measurements, and even then it’s tough. I’m a (somewhat) athletic 5’11”, 175lbs, and I find my medium nano puff pullover pretty fitted across the shoulders, elbows and even hips (baggy elsewhere). I can’t fit more than an R1 in there. If I could do it again, I would go for size large.

[Michael F]

Should be no prob swapping it out if I need to , I emailed and asked if i could send it back if it was the wrong size and they said yes

[BCap]

@Owen

Interesting.  I’m a hair taller and a hair lighter but not so much that I’d expect it to make a big difference.  I’m guessing we just have two different model years jackets with slightly different cuts.

@Michael

Yeah, now seems to be a good time to get last years model winter gear.  Solid sales from manufacturers.  It feels silly buying winter parkas when its 95F out, but 50-60% off makes things much more reasonable.  As a side note, I’ve had really good luck with finding perfectly nice name-brand fleeces at the thrift store for peanuts.  Patagonia’s worn wear program seems ok for fleeces/down too, though right now the deep sales are making it less attractive.

[Michael F]

yeah no kidding lot of sales going around now, directly from manufacturer of either those backstock sites like Campmor, Backcountry, Mountain Steals, etc

[Matt V]

I like the Outdoor Research Echo material, but it seems to snag easily. I am careful to keep things like metal zippers and velcro in a separate load of laundry from my base layers, but my Echo 1/4 zip long sleeve has a couple snags. No idea how it happened? I haven’t asked them to replace it, but I guess I don’t care unless it gets worse. The Polartec Delta material on the Gauge t-shirt claims to cool you off, but I didn’t notice much difference between that and any other polyester T-shirt. The Octane shirt claims to be “The Cadillac of training shirts” but I didn’t notice anything special about it either.

I’ve found Patagonia’s fit to be inconsistent between products and sometimes weird, so try on everything and maybe order two sizes if you’re not sure and if it’s a limited time sale. They are good about returns and exchanges. I like their products when they fit.

I bought a bunch of ski layers from Patagonia during a sale in the spring. I have a Nano Air jacket, R2 jacket, Super Alpine jacket, Kniferidge jacket, and Triolet pants. Most of that would be overkill for North Carolina, but if you’re spending extended time out in the winter you might consider some slightly heavier shells. I use these layers for backcountry skiing where I might have anything from 50 degrees and sunny while skinning uphill to 20 degrees, windy and snowing wile at rest on the same day. I would have gone

The Kniferidge and Super Apline seem to have the same cut, but I got the Kniferidge in size small and the Super Alpine in size medium. They are cut to leave room for layers, so the medium Super Apline jacket is huge on me, but I can fit the Nano Air and R2 under it. Or I can put my down parka under it, but it’s a bit tight. The Kniferidge has some stretch, so I can wear a small, and I plan to use it in warmer conditions with fewer layers under it.  The R2 I think I have in medium, and it is very long and slim fitting which works for me. I can’t remember if I went with a medium or small Nano Air. I think medium because although the small was less baggy, it restricted my arms a bit, and it was too short.

The Nano Air is supposed to be more breathable than the Nano Puff or a down puffy. A down jacket like a Down Sweater will probably be more durable than a Nano Puff or Nano Air since synthetic insulation loses its loft over time.

[Michael F]

IME down and synthetic both lose their loft overtime …and down isnt the best in NC tbh

I think I’m going to go with a heavy weight base layer + a lightweight but insulated soft shell pant for my mid layer, but carry a lightweight rain pant to fit over all…and try not bring a technical hard shell pant…they are very heavy and wont be worn all the time… Is this a good idea? or should I tone my mid layer pants down a notch and opt for a hard shell to throw over top when needed?

so insulated softhsell mid + Rain pant
or Insulated mid pant + Hardshell technical pant

keep in mind I may not always be in NC I might be in neighboring states at some point in the future and maintain the ability to use some of this same gear

[Matt V]

Yeah, I forgot how humid it can be there. Down will lose its loft eventually, but in my experience you can wash it and restore it longer than you can with synthetics. But maybe there are higher quality synthetics these days? And you could consider down that’s treated to be water resistant.

Depending on what you’re doing you probably don’t need technical hard shell pants, but I would always have at least one very wind and water resistant pair of pants even if it’s just rain pants. There are a wide range of softshell fabrics, but if you get one with a membrane like Polartec PowerShield Pro or Neoshell, that would block enough wind and water most of the time (not if it’s raining or if you’re playing in the snow).  Those are air permeable membranes, and they will act almost like hardshells. I don’t have enough experience to know if that actually makes much difference compared to regular Gore Tex or similar hardshells that are not air permeable.

I built a snow cave last winter, and crawling in the snow for a few hours saturated my old hardshell waterproof breathable pants. I didn’t get wet, but once I stopped moving the pants froze and became stiff. That is the kind of thing where you might want hardshell pants. I mainly have the Triolet pants because they are one of the few with a full length zipper, so I can unzip or even completely take them off while skiing without taking my boots off. And when I get cold I can seal them up. They are heavy for sure. But no softshell material is breathable enough to keep me cool while working hard in the sun and also warm enough to keep me warm when it’s windy and snowing. I can’t think of any softshell pants with a full zipper, and that is a requirement for me for backcountry ski pants. For other uses there are options with partial length vents or no vents that might work for you.

I usually don’t need much insulation on my legs. Normally I am quite comfortable with a light or medium base layer and uninsulated technical hardshell pants. On very cold days I’ll add fleece pants. I wouldn’t want insulated shell pants if I was working hard at all, unless it was extremely cold or they had excellent vents. Even if I’m downhill skiing and it’s well below zero the most I need is a base layer, fleece pants, and uninsulated hardshell pants. If I was camping I might bring my down pants in addition to my fleece pants, but the down pants are not that warm, and I don’t know how to layer them with my fleece pants.

Don’t base your purchasing decisions on this, but somehow the few times I’ve worn rain pants instead of uninsulated technical hardshell pants my legs have been much colder. The hardshell pants are only very slightly thicker than rain pants, so it’s hard to believe that there could be much difference in insulating ability. Maybe more experimenting is needed?

The coldest night I’ve camped was one night in March in the Smoky Mountains where it got down to -9 degrees F and snowed a few inches. I did not have appropriate clothing for that trip, but luckily we made it home without frostbite.

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