Frameless pack fit

I would say yes, the top of the shoulder straps should be pretty much straight back and level with the top of your shoulders, maybe a inch lower.

I guess it looks a little short, but I tend to use things like that as a rough starting point and go more by feel and actual performance on the trail.

More importantly, I like that shirt Matthew.  :-)

I have a ZPacks Nero that I’m happy to ship you to try – It has three belt positions to adjust the torso length.  You could load up the pack with your 12 lb normal load and try the different belt positions to see what’s the most comfortable for you.  I won’t be needing it back until October so you’d have a couple weeks to play with it.  It would only cost you return shipping…

PM me if you’re interested.

Kevin, that is extremely nice of you to offer however I am going to decline. I tend to wear my pack low and I have found that since I like wearing my hipbelt lower than normal I need the hipbelt to be at the bottom of the pack. I’ve had the problem with ULA packs which adjust by moving the hipbelt up and down…

I know I’m supposed to wear my hipbelt higher but after decades of carrying too much belly fat (including in my twenties when I was a bike messenger in NYC) I have accepted that is how my body works. When I wear a pack up on my iliac crest like I’m “supposed to” I feel like I can’t breathe. It’s idiosyncratic but it me. 🤷‍♂️

Thanks for the offer.

No problem – I was happy to offer.

Since I’ve lightened my pack weight so much I basically use the hip belt to keep my hip belt pockets horizontal, but NOT to take any of the weight off of my shoulders.  I carried a GG Murmur for years and found that technique works for me so the actual location of the hip belt really doesn’t matter – it’s just clipped loosely around my waist.

Noticing packs below 40L tend to be “one size” fits all/most, but also the small volume should limit weight if everything is kept in the main body/built in pockets.  If the weight is low enough, think the shoulder strap angle won’t be an issue for most.

Yeah agreed. I just struggle to be comfortable in the high teens to low twenties range with a bear can, microspikes and more food. I feel like  some slight optimizations could bump my comfortable weight up by a pound or two and I’d be golden.

Let’s face it, most frameless packs are stuff sacks with shoulder straps. I’ve used a few over the years, and realized that trying to add features to imitate a framed backpack was mostly a futile effort to make the pack work like one with a frame. So I always would remove hip belts and found exterior mesh pockets and the like — just flimsy attachments that fail over the short term.

I used a zPacks Zero for many years. It did have two water bottle pockets for desert hiking and a pad holder. Nothing else.

So they are going to hang off you shoulders. Yes, you can build a quasi-frame with a “burrito” foam pad or a foam pad is a sleeve in the back of the pack, but with much weight at all, you’ll end up with most of the weight on the shoulders.

With frameless packs, the hip belt is mostly just to secure it to the waist — to keep it from moving too much.

Many here will disagree with me, but attempting to make a frameless pack work like a pack with a real frame is an exercise in futility.