Foot Pain (Not plantar fasciitis!!)

probably no magic here, if you want a permanent solution.

if it is hurting you need to stop doing that. get off your feet, at least with weight. reduce distance dramatically. and focus on a long term campaign of strengthening, ideally guided by a physical therapist that thinks orthopedic stuff is mostly crap.

I recently went through something very similar. I guide part-time (weighted down with group gear), and I carry a weighted ruck at home to keep my trail legs. I was also certain it was not Plantar Fasciitis. I also experienced pain right under the ball of my foot (plantar plate). I kept thinking it was maybe where an integrated rock plate terminated in my favorite footwear, or maybe it was a fitment issue stemming from wearing shoes plus one size, or maybe I was just being really sloppy with my footfall placement on rough rocky trails! After going through a litany of possibilities, it turned out really focusing on calf stretching and foot stretching was all it took to calm the pain down … particularly at night before sleep.

Is there discomfort when you pull your toes back (hyperextend), like you are stretching them?

I have a similar thing going on as well.  Yes, when I extend my foot down it makes it cramp up.  Stretching has helped for me as well, particularly before bed and after working out.  I hike/trail run 8-12 miles five times a week getting home about dark or slightly after.  When I don’t take the time to stretch after I shower and before I go to bed the pain is worse.

I also have plantar fasciitis and have been trying many different footbeds and heel cups.  There seems to be little correlation between the heel pain and walking, running, or different footbeds – sometimes it hurts and sometimes it doesn’t – which is quite frustrating at times.  Compounding the problem is that as I have gotten older the fatty pads on the bottom of my feet have dissipated and there is less natural cushion.  Along with that is an ankle bone that now sits lower and rubs on the top edge of the shoe.  It does help as a distraction from the other foot pain as it is a sharp pain now that the skin has rubbed off and not a dull ache.  ?

Is there discomfort when you pull your toes back (hyperextend), like you are stretching them?

No, it is only painful when I put weight on it.  Just got back from a 6 mile hike with a 5-10 lb daypack on and it was pretty tender when I got back to the car.  No pain associated with stretching, bending, extending, etc…Just pressure pain when I walk, and only under the ball.

PushPop

Could be a stress fracture in your foot. Best to get it checked out.

I get that sometimes… at least it sounds like it.  The thing that fixed it for me was running.  I guess running strengthened my feet stronger than long hiking required.  Like 12 miles a week was all I did.

Beefier shoes helped some.  I really like Trail runners with really knobby soles. I use Sportiva Mutants, they seem to be tough underfoot, protection-wise.  I think running did the most, though.

Hard to say, but try some new joggers in a much wider fitting.

New – because an worn and indented inner sole can be quite damaging, even though you don’t recognise or ‘feel’ it. When my wife finds her feet starting to ache, she moves to new shoes and the problem goes away.

Wide – because narrow shoes compress the ligaments inside the foot ever so ‘innocently’ – and cause severe long-term problems. Narrow shoes can lead to Morton’s Neuroma.

Cheers

It does make me wonder about a bone issue (bone bruise, etc) and not tendon/fascia. I had a stress fracture of an ankle once and had swelling associated with it. If no swelling or fullness at all (no fullness and standing on hard surface without shoes on to try and tell if swelling is present), a stress fracture may be less likely..just guessing. Morton’s neuroma usually up between 2nd and 3rd toes or 3rd and 4th toes…might be shooting pain. Where’s Jen the PT ; ).

This will be a long response and probably not quite on topic but maybe you can derive something from it.

My feet have been painful for at least 25 years.  They hurt when I hike (I described them as feeling like mashed potatoes at the end of the day and they take about 4 hours to recover), hurt when I golfed (gave that up about 10 years ago).  I never thought much about it, just believed everyone’s feet felt the same way so I never complained and never talked too much about it with my hiking partners, didn’t want to appear to be a whiner :)  I never sought expert help.  I found some relief from Superfeet Blue insoles; the green ones made the situation worse.

Finally, last year I concluded that I had tolerated enough and decided to throw some money at the problem.  I bought several pairs of shoes and saw no improvement.  I spent probably $100 on various insoles, gel and otherwise, and saw no improvement.  Bought some type of wrap-around silicone heel cup that gave some very slight relief probably from a cushioning effect.  Tried some stretching exercises with not much result.

I wasn’t making much progress.  Like you I was convinced that I did not have plantar fasciitis, the symptoms did not quite match PF, but having tried everything else I thought why not suspend my belief for a while and treat my feet as if they did have PF.  Ever since that change of mindset I have eliminated 90% to 95% of the pain.  Since I have not been officially diagnosed with PF I can’t say with certainty that PF is the problem but I don’t care since my feet are now happy :)

Last September I backpacked the Wind River Mtns. of Wyoming using Bitly Plantar sleeve socks.  Notably on the last day I walked 16 miles, a long day for me, and my feet felt very good at the end of the day.  Ordinarily they start to hurt at the 5 mile mark.

Since then I have mostly used CEP compression socks along with Heel That Pain Heel Seats (black).  My foot problems are essentially gone.  I remove the full length insoles from my shoes, insert the HTP blacks, add the CEP socks and sometimes an additional thin pair of socks.  Not having an insole under the front of my foot has the additional benefit of giving my toes plenty of room.  Happiness ensues.

I am looking forward to setting some personal distance records in my old age, 67.

I’m not implying that you do have PF.  Merely saying keep trying different things until something works.

I had a similar pain a couple of years back. I found a video on youtube that said to look for a knot in you Achilles area. I found one and massaged it out and everything was fine after that. It did hurt to massage it out, but I was fine after that. I also believe in the calf stretches. Point your toes forward as much as you can and then pull them back as far as you can. Works for me at least.

John K.

Thanks for some additional insight.  I am where you where and will skip ahead  and try out compression socks and heel cups.  I too was in the Winds last September and had to bail early due to IT band issues, a first for me in more than 40 years of backpacking, both the IT band issue and having to bail because mobility problems due to pain.  I responded by picking up off season training that has caused some foot pain but it has been manageable and would not sideline me like the knee pain.

Good morning John V.

I hope my solution works for you.  We are all different.  For perhaps a $50 (don’t remember the prices) expenditure it is worth a try.

The reason I have switched from Bitly to CEP is that there is some fiddle factor involved with keeping the Bitly’s from creating a lump by rolling over onto themselves while putting them on.  Not a big deal, it just takes an extra 10 seconds to rearrange them compared to the CEP’s which act just like socks.  The Bitly’s maintain their form while hiking, it is putting them on that is slightly time consuming.

The HTP’s feel very odd at first.  After 10 minutes of walking it is less apparent.  At this point I don’t feel anything odd at all.  It is possible that they are worn out and I need a new pair; they do not last forever like Superfeet :)

I’m not sure I need both the heel cups and the socks.  There is benefit from using only one.

Good luck!

I had something very similar several years ago, though my pain was not on the ball before the big toe, but rather below the fourth toe or so.  It was diagnosed as metatarsalgia, and the podiatrist recommende I wear green superfeet insoles, and shoes that were not too flexible in the soles (Brooks worked well for me).  It took a while to go away, several months, so I’m not sure if those things worked or it was just the passage of time.

Something I might try nowadays is some little half-spheres called Foot Savers.  They help stretch out muscles oh the bottom of your feet as you stand on them with various parts of your feet.

Zack,

I’ve been dealing with something similar for a year now. PT took care of some pain but it still comes and goes. This is what my MD figures my issue is .

http://www.aofas.org/footcaremd/conditions/ailments-of-the-big-toe/Pages/Sesamoiditis.aspx

Good luck,

TomL

I have an issue in the ball of my left foot.  Might be Morton’s or something else.  Sharp pain for first few steps in the morning, then it goes away.  Ache and burning after a couple miles of running or hiking.  Runner friend recommended these: https://powersteps.com/shop-products/powerstep-insoles/powerstep-retail/pinnacle-plus-insoles.html  They have a built-in metatarsal pad.  I put one in my wide-toed running or trail-running shoe and I can run/hike without symptoms.  Good luck!!

I’ve had foot problems my entire life.  I have flat feet, and when ever I had tried to correct them with insoles of one type or another I would get the pain that you described, and it could last for days after removing the insoles.  I also have wide feet.  It may seem like baloney, but it is not easy to find a shoe in a wider width.  So, I would compensate by buying shoes that were one to two sizes larger.  Foot pain and other problems persisted.

A few years ago I was talking to a runner about running shoes and was given a bunch of information on how to select a shoe.  I took those thoughts online and found that there is, in fact, a ton of research being done (or had been done) relating to running and shoes.  One topic to come up over and over was that you should not try to correct the mechanics of your feet unless an underlying medical reason is present.  As it turned out, flat feet is not a legit medical condition; so I tossed all insoles out and my feet have been much happier ever since.  I also finally bit the bullet and started to wear wide-width shoes, which means I am basically relegated to Keen and New Balance.

Shoot, you could walk 30 miles with nothing but the clothes on your back and you’d still get achey feet.  But there’s a difference between aches and pains.  My pro-tip would be to find a shoe that is right for your feet, no matter how much it may not be “ultralight”.

I also finally bit the bullet and started to wear wide-width shoes

At last: daylight!
Yes, I have been preaching this for at leat 10 years: get your feet measured on a Brannock Device and ONLY buy shoes which are wide enough. For best results, wear thick socks while measuring and go up 1/2 a size and to the next width.

Many (most) special brands of walking shoes come only in a D fitting: the companies do not have enough sales to do more than that. Their glossy PR is great, but for many walkers their shoes are too narrow.

Cheers

Zack- sounds like Mortons Neuroma. Aside from getting into a wide footbox, another important aspect is to add a metatarsal pad right under where the pain on the ball of the foot is. This will spread your metatarsals out, allowing for the inflammation to subside. The metatarsal pad will feel like you’re walking on a tennis ball the first few days but eventually it feels like getting a deep massage (hurts but feels so good at the same time).

Zack, A couple questions first, is your second toe your longest toe?  If you press on the ball of your foot with your fingers, does that cause pain?

The reason I ask is, I had the same symptoms and after a year of being off trail because of it, it was discovered that my second toe, which is the longest on each foot was acting as the fulcrum point with every step I took. This is called Morton’s toe, is common  and it’s usually not a problem for the many people that have it. What makes it a problem is when we start walking a lot more than the average person and it becomes an overuse injury.  I had pain in the ball of my foot starting at about the 600 mile mark of a PCT thru and, even though I finished that hike, the pain never went away and after another year of hiking, I finally had to throw in the towel until it got figured out. What was happening was, my longer second toe was getting jammed back into my foot on every step and after millions of steps with a pack, it started tearing the plantar plate ligaments in both feet- hence the pain in the ball of each foot.  After dicking around to appease the wife with getting orthodocs that did no good, two months of physical therapy that did nothing, I had surgery to repair the ligaments and had my second toe on each foot shortened, which was that cause of the problem.

If this sounds familiar to what you are experiencing, PM me, I’m happy to send you more information.

Bumping this. Whenever we backpack I experience debilitating foot pain by the end of the day, assuming the day is “normal/long” as far as mileage and terrain (I’d be fine doing a flat, three mile hike on a dirt trail). We just got back from CA and on the first day we did about 9 miles, mostly uphill on a trail that was rocky 75% of the time. By the end of the day the entire bottom of both feet were incredibly sore – I couldn’t have gone any farther. It’s not a sharp pain, just a sore feeling that spans the entire bottom of the foot. The next day we hiked out and the soreness was so bad that we were thankful we didn’t extend the trip an extra night, as I could hardly walk by the time we reached the trailhead.

I have flat feet and over the last 10 years I’ve been to countless podiatrists. Nothing I’ve tried so far has shown much improvement. I’ve tried at least a half dozen different boots (currently wearing Lowa Renegade) and every insole you can think of, including a custom pair I currently wear, super feet, powersteps, and factory insoles.

I thought about switching to Altras, but being on my feet too long in tennis shoes also causes soreness, though certainly not to the degree I experience while hiking (I have a pair of Altra shoes I wear casually). My fear with something like Altras would be the loss in rock protection that boots give me, and this could exacerbate the problem on rocky trails.

Has anyone with similar problems found that stretching can alleviate soreness this severe? Our next trip is in late July and we are dialing down the mileage to make it more enjoyable. In the meantime hopefully I can find something that helps.

Another possibility is Sesamoiditis –

https://www.foothealthfacts.org/conditions/sesamoid-injuries-in-the-foot

I got enough relief from these metatarsal pads –

(I’m a size 11 and used a Medium.)

….  recommended by my ortho doc, for things to quite down and eventually recover. They elevate the foot a bit to relieve the pressure under the big toe joint.  I no longer use them.

YMMV

Ditto on the various Morton’s responses and solutions.

If your pain is coupled with a regular feeling that your sock is bunched up where your toes meet your foot and/or in between your toes, it’s most likely Morton’s or a variation up or down a toe (Morton’s is a specific “in between” toe slot but I forget which one.  I’m pretty sure I have it and it’s insanely annoying to downright painful sometimes.  But the OP’s sounds like worse pain than what I experience.  So dunno.  Probably better to have a foot doc or orthopedic doc diagnose it over “forum medics”.

My solution until it gets bad enough to force me to getting a professional opinion has been Altra shoes and some of the wider Hokas (Mafate Speed 2 or Mafate Evo).  And the metatarsal pads as well.

I had plantar fasciitis once and while it’s no fun, at least it healed up eventually.  No solution for this crap thaT I’ve heard of other than shoe/insole/pad choice, tons of Aleve, or eventually steroid shots or surgery.

So.  If you can alleviate it with shoes and pads, I say do it !

It’s not a sharp pain, just a sore feeling that spans the entire bottom of the foot.
Based on this, another possibility is that your shoes are just too narrow for your feet. The insides of your feet are being damaged by the sideways pressure. Most niche brands only make one width – ‘average’, or about D on the Brannock scale.

Step 1: go to a good sports store and have your feet measured on a genuine Brannock device while you are wearing thick wool socks.

Step 2: add at least a half size to the length and do not buy shoes smaller than this. Your feet will expand a bit after a few hours walking.

Step 3: check the width of any shoes you are considering and do NOT ever buy any that are narrower than the Brannock width. Make that a very hard rule.

Step 4: when you get home, discard any shoes which do not meet these criteria, even if they are new and expensive. Your feet are more valuable.

The lack of a rigid sole on modern joggers is not a problem. If anything, it is a good thing, as it means you can feel the ground under your feet better. Its called proprioception. This will reduce the chances of slipping and injuring your ankle. You do NOT need a rigid sole: half the world goes around without shoes, and stiff soles are a very, very recent innovation in the evolution of the human body. Your feet will manage just fine.

Footnote: your feet may take a month or two and a few short walks to recover and get used to their freedom. That is normal after so many years of being mistreated. Once you make the transition to a ‘correct fit’ you will never go back.

Cheers