Flysheet design question

Yes a lot of people in the UK/Europe prefer a “full coverage” fly. The main benefit there is stopping wind/drafts when camping in exposed locations, as are common in the UK. This also reduces snow blowing in, although that’s less common. Reducing wind/drafts doesn’t make it that much warmer in the tent (might help by 2 or 3 degrees), but it can feel a lot warmer when it’s not drafty.

For this same reason, many in the UK prefer a solid inner. Since your Moment does have a solid inner, that sorta accomplishes the same thing. You’d likely be fine with it, but a full coverage fly + solid inner is the ideal setup if you’re planning to use it regularly in the cold/wet/windy conditions that are common in the UK.

Thanks for your input @dandydan. Makes sense. So it seems like the Moment DW will more than likely be enough, however; I might still consider getting a tent with a full flysheet and solid inner for those days that I head out in some iffy weather conditions. Is there a tent that you know of that’s as dependable (or at least close to) as the Soulo, but sub 2kg?
Cheers

I’ve done a lot of camping in the UK hills, but I’ve always used a full-coverage fly.

As Dan says, a partial fly is going to be very draughty. This creates a wind-chill effect that’s much greater than the measurable difference in ambient temperature, though you could obviously mitigate this with a solid inner.

My main concern would be storm performance. With a full-coverage design, the wind will simply flow over the panel walls. Even then, big winds are a challenge for lightweight tents. With a partial fly, the wind is being channelled into the gap between the fly and the inner. You’re likely going to have a very flappy inner, and all kinds of weird forces on the fly that might lift it off the anchors or shake the anchors loose. At best, I think you might be in for a noisy night.

A lot will depend on your usage. If you camp in sheltered spots in settled weather you’ll be just fine. But I’d be worried if you camp high and exposed, like the guys I saw yesterday on the summit of High Street. As you’ll know, our mountain forecasts can be unreliable. A couple of days ago I headed up the Langdales with a forecast for brisk but reasonable winds. When I reached the tops I was hit by gusts that must have been in excess of 60 mph – I had to crawl at times. Plus driving hail. So much for midsummer…

So even with a current forecast, you have to be prepared for the worst. In moorland areas like the Peak you can be a long way from shelter.

Partial flies are a bit of an unknown quantity here, because hardly anyone uses them. When TT released the Scarp, they added a full-coverage fly in response to UK demand, and it’s very well regarded. But with a partial fly, I’d definitely be erring on the side of caution. If you can get a good price for your Moment, you might be better to take the hit and swap it out for something more suited to UK conditions.

@geoffcaplan Sounds good. I very much appreciate the feedback and both your and Dan’s information makes sense.

I might just keep the Moment for fair weather conditions so to speak and pick up a more suitable one for winter camping up in the peaks.

It’s a bit of a challenge to find a shelter that is as dependable as the Soulo but lighter (under 2kg), with enough space for gear and myself in the inner. If one comes to mind, please let me know!

> When TT released the Scarp, they added a full-coverage fly in response to UK demand, and it’s very well regarded.

The coverage/fly height above ground on the Moment DW is very similar to the Scarp 1.

Keep in mind that fly edges truly locked to ground are just asking for excessive condensation build up.

-H

Thanks for the input Henry. Right, it did seem from the photos that the fly doesn’t extend all the way to the ground on the Scarp as well.

Anyhow, much appreciated guys, I definitely have a better understanding of the “mechanics” so to speak of a full coverage rainfly vs a shorter one. In a sense it’s a trade off between having less condensation or a less breezy and potentially colder porch/vestibule, along with some other possible  issues like snowdrift…

Cheers

I’ve used a Moment DW in exposed pitches in Scotland.

And a Scarp a lot lot more.

The Scarp totally has the edge.

But the differing factor is not the fly coverage, its the fact that the Scarp has 2 Pitchloks/3pegs anchoring it at the windward end, whilst the Moment only has 1/1.   I added another line and a blizzard stake for high winds.  I also think the extra pole helps more in wind on the Moment than they do on the Scarp.

I’ve also used the Stratospire 2 in pretty bad winds. Which is full coverage, but bigger flatter panels.  Even so, with extra staking it coped.

Alex. You might be better served with more real actual experiences of both  UK conditions AND Tarptent users on a UK forum such as Trek-lite.com. Or the Facebook groups? Just a thought.

I’m hesitant to disagree with Henry, because he’s been living and breathing shelters for decades.

But in my experience the key to condensation is through-draught. I much prefer full-fly designs that have the option to have doors open at each end in all but the worst weather and inner doors that can be partially closed from the bottom to keep the draught above your body as you sleep. In 50 years of camping this way in our lovely British weather I’ve never had a serious issue with condensation and I’ve never had a wet bag/quilt.

Then, when the weather really blows up, you have the option to lock right down for a quieter and more secure night. In these conditions condensation becomes a secondary issue, but the force of the wind does ensure some draught however tight to the ground you’re pitched.

Very small gaps, though, are less of an issue because of the ground effect. On anything short of smooth snow, wind speed close to the ground is generally significantly reduced. But they still leave you vulnerable to spindrift build-up.

There’s more to a storm-proof tent than just a full fly, though – there are a wide range of design issues. Generally you are trading off comfort for security, unless you approach the weight of a Scarp or an Akto.

For lightweight tents designed and tested for European conditions you could check out TrekkerTent in Scotland and Tipik in France, and if your budget is generous, TrampLite in England or Bonfus in Norway.

> But in my experience the key to condensation is through-draught.

Completely agree.  My point is that when the air is relatively still–and it is that way even in the UK at times–then edges locked to ground hinder the ability of warm, moist internal air from exiting any upper vents. I still well remember my TGO hike and all the hikers using Atkos and other tents with edges locked to ground existing their soaked tents in the morning while my admittedly much breezier Moment was much drier.

As Geoff said “With a partial fly, the wind is being channelled into the gap between the fly and the inner. You’re likely going to have a very flappy inner, and all kinds of weird forces on the fly that might lift it off the anchors or shake the anchors loose. At best, I think you might be in for a noisy night.”

Yep, when the fly doesn’t get low enough to the ground the inner will flap and keep you up all night even if the rain fly is taught. I’ve been there too many times.

Henry – that’s a fair point. On rare calm nights you can get a lot of condensation on the fly if it’s pegged to the ground.

But in my experience this has never caused a problem. As I said, I’ve never had a wet bag, which is all I really care about. In the morning you can wipe off the moisture, especially with a silpoly fly, and get on your way.

But in a storm I would very much prefer a fly I can batten down. This gives a quieter sleep, and may save you from worse if things turn really nasty.

So on the one side is a mild inconvenience, and on the other better sleep and greater safety.

With lightweight gear we’re always making trade-offs, but in UK conditions I find that the benefits of a full fly far outweigh the disadvantages. And judging by what I see in the hills, the great majority of hikers here agree with me.

In areas with more stable weather the trade-offs may be different.

That’s a great idea @mole. Thanks.

I’m in the same boat as Geoff in preferring a longer flysheet (that can be lifted for calm nights)  to be a bit more comfortable should the wind kick up.  It would be great to be able to have available an optional, longer rainfly for the Scarp or perhaps even the Moment, purely for camping in more inclement weather. I’m sure its easier said than done and not sure if the demand would necessarily be here in the US, but might in the UK… With that being said, I’d be first in line to purchase a product like that:) It could fill a gap for a shelter that is close to as dependable as the Soulo but lighter. A Scarp with a full flysheet might just tick that box.