Fleece instead of wind shirt?

It’s good to experiment and see what works best for yourself.

I don’t even own a windshirt, and usually while backpacking I don’t carry a fleece jacket although I did on the A.T.

When hiking, I’m usually wearing a nylon shirt. If I’m getting cold, I put on my breathable rain jacket, venting as needed to stay comfortable.

If it’s cold enough I’ll put on a down jacket for breaks. And many times I’ve hiked in conditions cold enough to wear a down jacket while hiking.

I also never use wind shirts. I find them annoying. They never breathe very well as the tight, wind-proof material is designed not to let anything in… meaning warmer temps like shoulder season or summer, the wind shirt keeps a lot of heat in.

A fleece, on the other hand, lets some wind in. It is extraordinarily breathable.

If I’m in really warm weather and need wind protection, of course a fleece won’t do it. But because I carry a UL WPB rain jacket, I can use that instead.

For people who carry a rain jacket, a light fleece is a way more valuable item as it can both account for warmth, and SOME protection from the elements, while NOT trapping your sweat. So if you are hiking up a peak on a breezy day that’s cool, you may benefit more from a fleece, and actually WANT some wind to make it to your skin to help the evaporative cooling so you don’t overheat.

In those same conditions, a wind shirt would keep your moisture in and for me, that makes me too warm.

I think the people who find this recommendation stupid or not helpful are most likely going to be people who carry a wind shirt INSTEAD of a WPB rain jacket. In that case, yes, using a fleece instead won’t really be helpful.

“And many times I’ve hiked in conditions cold enough to wear a down jacket while hiking.”

I wonder if wearing a light fleece over a downjacket would help to keep the moisture out of it in those extreme conditions, similar to how some people use a synthetic quilt over their down bag?

If I’m hiking in a down jacket it’s cold and/or windy enough so I can avoid sweating by unzipping it partially or fully. Moisture buildup hasn’t been an issue for me.

“I wonder if wearing a light fleece over a downjacket would help to keep the moisture out of it in those extreme conditions, similar to how some people use a synthetic quilt over their down bag?”

I’m curious about this too. I read comments from Eric Chan about layering a synthetic puffy over a down jacket, and I thought about my oversized fleece. It would also protect my down jacket from stray embers.

“I wonder if wearing a light fleece over a downjacket would help to keep the moisture out of it in those extreme conditions, similar to how some people use a synthetic quilt over their down bag?”

yes BUT …

• if your base layers are soaking the moisture will just transfer to the down anyways
• it provides no wind protection by itself, so the fleece will be warmer UNDER the down jacket … unless you put it all under a shell
• it provides no protection against rain or drizzle so you need a shell on … synth at least has some DWR

the reality is that unless yr quite skilled and only take it out in camp, down poofays are an absolute cr@pshoot when theres continuous rain for days without any sun …

however if the conditions are merely damp and a few short thunderstorms and you arent totally soaked …. yes keeping your down under yr fleece, which should itself be under a shell will help the moisture migrate to the outer layer … add in a HAWT nalgene and your all set

—————

as to the original OP question …

i often bring a fleece instead of a windshirt if its really wet … a windshirt will get absolutely soaked and leaking like a sieve in about an hour or constant PNW rain, and it clings like a klingon on uranus

a nice fluffy fleece (thermal pro) merely feels damp and provides some insulation even when soaking wet … and you can just wring it out anytime

and if its windy, cold AND wet at the same time … you dont want a windshirt, you want a rain shell, which will still leak through the big holes … and the fleece can go right under when moving slowly, which trust me you will (not many folks run fast up/downhill through mud and waterfalls, wet rocks and roots in a heavy rainstorm with a pack on)

for places where its dryer and windier … a windshirt or softshell would work better than a fleece

i suspect the reason why the great skurka likes fleeces so much now is because he still has nightmares about being soaked in alaskan rain for weeks on end with leaking WPB shells … once youve experienced being totally soaked in freezing rain and not being able to dry out, youll never give up on yr fleece again !!!

;)

Yes, Eric, BUT i think Buck (and perhaps i’m presupposing too much) was talking about like -30 F*, -20 F* and VERY dry conditions.  In those conditions, moisture can freeze within the Down, especially on a longer trip (lot’s of Arctic accounts of that).  Perhaps a fleece over would help to keep that moisture from freezing in the outside part of the jacket?

But, you could also opt for Buck’s method of careful thermal regulation by opening and closing.  I’m not sure how well that would work with the back though.  I find no matter what i wear or don’t wear or what temps, because of my pack, my back gets sweaty.

[Edited to reply to Justin’s comments…]

I actually was talking about typical thru-hike conditions in the Lower 48. Once upon a time I climbed Denali, though, and wore a down parka and a pack a lot in sub-zero conditions with no significant problem with moisture buildup. That was where I learned that, counter-intuitively, a sleeping bag would dry out  in sub-zero conditions (via sublimation) if snow-staked out in the wind.

Everybody is a little different, but for me if it’s cold enough to be wearing my down jacket while thru-hiking my back isn’t sweating to any significant degree. If it is I’ll take off my down jacket.

Although I usually favor down for my warm jacket, on my wettest expeditions I go with fleece or a Micro Puff.

The rain on my Brooks Range traverse was the biggest challenge of all. Old Inupiat were saying it was the rainiest summer in their memory. There would be days of rain with nowhere to dry out, no sun, no reasonable chance for a campfire. I wore a Micro Puff jacket under my rain jacket in the cold rain. That Micro Puff was one of the best items I carried. It kept me warm many times when it was damp and cold, or even outright wet around the cuffs or my face.

What made it bearable is that I always had a dry bag at night, with dry long underwear, socks and a balaclava.

For the AT I used a light fleece. On the western trails I used an Alpine Light down jacket, and would again. Like I mentioned, with my method of layering I don’t carry a wind shirt with any of these combos regardless of conditions. But that’s just me.

I’m a bit confused, because i was originally responding to the following “And many times I’ve hiked in conditions cold enough to wear a down jacket while hiking.”

 Going by my own experiences at least (i do run warm), it would have to be much colder than what i’ve been out backpacking in (lows of -4 F* or so), to hike in a full down jacket, and so assumed the above quote was referring to even colder temps.  I have hiked at near 0 temps in areas with little elevation gain/loss with my front only 2.5 oz/yd2 Apex insulated vest though, and it provided just enough extra warmth to my baselayer (Cap 4 hoody) and windjacket to keep comfortable.
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Hi Justin,

I think it’s a good example of how we each use what works best for us. I can give you some examples of where I was hiking in a down jacket and mighty glad to have it. Any time when it was raining I was wearing my down jacket under my rain jacket, of course:

On the CDT in Glacier. There was an endless, icy, all-day rain, often windy on exposed mountainsides. It was classic hypothermia conditions.

On the CDT in the Red Desert. Endless miles of gently rolling, exposed desert, swept by a cold rain and constantly whipped by cold wind.

On the Desert Trail hiking in a foot of wet snow.  Also on the Desert Trail the days I hit Piper Peak and, weeks later, Pahute Peak. No rain or snow but strong, icy winds blowing across the peaks and ridge-lines. A balaclava and down jacket felt really, really good.

On the PCT in Washington, walking through rain and wet huckleberry bushes all day. Wearing my down jacket and rain coat and rain pants it was still so chilly I walked virtually non-stop from when I left camp until mid-afternoon.

Cold, wet feet played a role in many of those situations. I am a big believer in a warm jacket that I can deploy as needed.

Answer might be really clear if we specified summer vs winter?

Personally I get really annoyed with myself bringing “extra” gear. Would rather bring glove liners/buff.

Agreed Buck.  Also, sounds like you tend to do longer trips.  I do mostly weekend and 3 day trips, and when you’re fresh and not dealing with extreme conditions day after day, it probably more easily inclines one to be warmer vs being out for awhile.

The Apex vest i made is very light (sub 3 oz) and compact, and so i don’t mind bringing it for those in case conditions if i had to.  But if i had to use a Down jacket for other than rest, i would, just prefer not to.