Firearms when Backpacking

[BlackHatGuy]

“I find the odor to be somewhat pleasant”

That, Jerry, explains so, so much…. :-)

[MJ H]

I’m not inferring anyone is homicidal. I’m just pointing out that self-report isn’t always accurate.

[David Thomas]

Before CW McCall’s “Convoy” song which popularized CB radio use, there were other novelty songs in the 1970’s:

[DAN-Y]

Mountain goat kills hiker in Olympic National Park
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/mountain-goat-kills-man-in-olympic-national-park/

 

 

[Tom K]

“Before CW McCall’s “Convoy” song which popularized CB radio use, there were other novelty songs in the 1970’s”

That elicited a hearty chuckle and brought back some “fond” childhood memories of Northern Michigan.

[DAN-Y]

I carry one of these ultra light tear gas pens:

[Adam]

This thread seems to have gone as expected.  As to the trolling question, maybe, but it’s also likely that Carlos C had an honest question, and then bailed on the conversation when things went haywire.

I once asked an honest question on a hunting forum about wolves, to the same effect.

FWIW, in town I always carry a Beretta Nano 9mm.  I’ve carried it in the woods a handful of times, but more recently haven’t been bringing it because I haven’t found a carry method that I like.  Osprey packs and holsters don’t go together very well.  I’ve been toying with the idea of getting one of the new MR Sawtooth packs, and if I do that, I’ll for sure grab a holster for it.

To me, the weight vs value of carrying is a total wash, which is why I sometimes leave it home and sometimes carry it depending on my mood.  I’ve thankfully never felt like I wanted it when I haven’t had it (one hopes that’s forever the case), but I was glad to have it once and even drew it.

This sounds funny, and is funny in retrospect, but on the NW slopes of Mt Adams a few years ago my dog got into a fight with a doe (presumably guarding its fawn, although I never saw it).  The doe stomped my dog and pulled some of her fur out, and she was missing at the time I encountered the doe.  The doe came running straight at me and stomped aggressively at me.  Not sure if the thing was rabid or just defending a fawn or what, and knowing I’d be unlikely to win a hand-to-hoof encounter with a crazed animal, I drew my pistol.

Thankfully for everyone, I managed to scare the doe off by throwing a stick, pistol went back into the holster, and we proceeded to look for our poor dog.  Turns out she had peace’d out and ran 2 miles back to the trailhead, and was waiting for us by the car :).

 

Anyway, I totally get carrying a weapon.  We can argue till we’re all blue in the face about the efficacy of firearms for personal defense, but I can tell you if I ever go on a bow hunt in grizz country, I’ll be carrying BOTH spray and my pistol, and both will be in hand’s reach at all time.  I’ve heard enough horror stories to carry both.  I normally rifle hunt, so I count my 7mm-08 and bear spray as a pretty good defense against grizzlies.

[AK Granola]

Adam, so your dog, running loose and not under your control, chased down a doe with a fawn (maybe), and you think the doe’s defense was perhaps rabies? What you needed wasn’t a gun, it was to keep your dog from harassing wildlife.  I’m not opposed to the gun, but prevention of the need for it in this case might have been wiser, and pretty simple.

[AK Granola]

Heading out for a hike in grizzly country today, without a firearm. Wish me luck! If I never post again on bpl, maybe I got et. And the world will keep turning.

[Adam]

What you say is true, Karen, if perhaps a bit obvious.

The inclusion of rabies was to shed light on my mental state in that moment, not a rational assessment of what happened after the fact.  Of course the most likely scenario is that there was a fawn nearby.  Though I was thankful to have my pistol, I did resolve the situation without needing it, thankfully.

As to my dog harassing wildlife, get over yourself.  She hadn’t been out of my sight for more than a few seconds, and she was and continues to be under excellent voice command.  Accidents happen.

[Ken Thompson]

“my dog got into a fight with a doe (presumably guarding its fawn, although I never saw it).  The doe stomped my dog and pulled some of her fur out, and she was missing at the time I encountered the doe.”

”She hadn’t been out of my sight for more than a few seconds”

Right.

Gotta say no need to be rude to Karen. And I agree with her 100%.

[Adam]

For clarity, my dog had been walking behind me (hence not out of my sight for more than a few seconds) when I heard her yelp, I turned around to see the doe land her front hoofs squarely on my dog’s chest, and then they both disappeared into the brush.  We looked for her for several minutes before the doe approached me (hence me saying my dog was missing when I encountered the doe).  After the doe bounded off, I found a tuff of my dog’s hair.

And again, I also agree with Karen.  In retrospect, the obviously most likely thing is that the doe was acting in defense (I said this in my initial comment).  I don’t think that the doe might have had rabies.  Off the top of my head I don’t even know if deer can have rabies.  But when being charged by an angry doe for the first and only time, in that moment I didn’t know what to think, and rabies did cross my mind.

Certainly in retrospect this wouldn’t have happened if Cassi had been on a leash.  But I’m not here to argue about whether it’s ok to have off-leash pets in the back country.

[Kevin R]

I posted the following reflection on social media after a bad experience two years ago.  There’s many lessons, including that campsite selection does matter.  However, there are many areas where options are very scarce.  I’ve never carried a gun while backpacking (don’t own one), and I probably won’t start (due to the weight), but after that experience, I wouldn’t judge someone who did.  In this circumstance, I had plenty of rational reasons to camp where I did, and a satellite messenger or first aid kit would have done me little good if things had escalated.  The flip side is that a firearm could have been the impetus for an escalation, so it would have had to have been deployed very prudently.  But, if things had gone a step further, I do think it could have made the difference between life and death for myself.

“I had a close call Sunday night. I was camped about 25 miles outside –, a mile up a rough forest service road. The guidebook had mentioned there would be some campsites by the tree line of a small clearing, which I found. I wasn’t thrilled that it was so accessible to the forest road, but it was late and it didn’t seem like that area had gotten much use recently. Shortly after drifting to sleep, I woke up around 11:30 pm to hear several loud trucks pull up on the dirt road above me. They stopped, had some conversation, and then the lead one backed up and entered the little clearing. He reeved up, and then proceeded to shred donuts, getting closer and closer to my camp until his tires started spraying mud and rocks into the side of my tent. I wasn’t sure if he knew I was there and was trying to intimidate me, or if he hadn’t seen my tent and was just having fun; either way, I realized that if I didn’t make my presence known, he would come close to running me over. I turned on my headlamp and shined it at the truck. The donuts stopped, and I heard someone shout “Dang, there’s a freakin’ tent in the mud hole!” Followed by “Sorry, didn’t mean to kick up dirt on you”, shouted in my direction. I thought that was reasonable, and prayed that they would go on their way. There was some more conversation among the drivers, and then the truck pulled up directly in line with me, 10 feet away from my tent, and shined it’s massive LED bar and reeved the engine a few times. All of a sudden, an object (which I later found out was an opened can of beer) came flying through the air and knocked into my tent pole, a few inches from my face. I was really starting to get nervous, because I realized that they weren’t beyond causing me physical harm, and they were positioned so that they could run right over my tent, with me in or out of it. Somebody called out with slurred speech, “Hey, you got any beer in there?” Not sure what the implications of my response would be, I remained silent. I briefly thought about making a run for it, but decided that they were drunk enough to make a game out of it and chase after me in their 6,000 lb trucks, or pull out some guns and start target practice. He called out again, so I shouted back, “No, no I don’t have any beer!” The guy asked again, and finally by the fourth time, they backed up, spun their tires, and drove across the creek, continuing up the road. Knowing that they might turn around at any minute, I vacated the camp ASAP. I furiously crammed everything into my bag, slipped on my shoes, and sprinted up another road which was gated off to vehicle traffic. Of course, there could have been some way around the gate, so I scrambled up a steep embankment until I found a bench wide enough that I could clear off and lay down ​my sleeping pad. My heart was racing so fast that I laid there for ten minutes, not knowing whether I was going to pass out or throw up or both. Finally, with the sound of the trucks still reeving in the distance, I arranged my bedding between some rocks and logs and fell asleep.

I share this because so often we think the biggest threats in the outdoors are from nature- snakes, bears, hornets, etc. Unfortunately, we aren’t always as remote as it seems, and those human threats become real. Does this experience with a bunch of drunk country boys mean that camping is dangerous? No. All in all, the most dangerous aspect of most outdoor recreation is getting there- the car ride to the destination. My last encounter with a drunk driver was a head on collision when I was 18. Thankfully no one was seriously hurt, but both cars were totaled. Sunday night could have happened anywhere. With it being in the backcountry, it did reinforce the importance of proper campsite selection: avoid areas near roads when possible, and try to be discreet.

Other than these couple of characters, everyone I’ve encountered on the — Trail has been very friendly, and — has been incredibly beautiful. Unfortunately, this one bad experience has put a bad taste in my mouth…I definitely have much less tolerance now for those country boys who have adopted the whole “Bro-country” mentality of manliness as being a jacked up truck, beers on back roads, slinging mud and macking on women. Tearing up a national forest in the middle of the night and intimidating hikers is a far cry from the country way of life that our ancestors taught us- I hope these guys grow up and realize that someday.”

 

[Roger Caffin]

Teenagers in utes … always bad news.

We had something like that many long years ago. Much revving around, while I had my wife with me in the tent, at about 11 pm.

So I climbed out of the tent in just my underwear and politely asked them to go away. They did – although the very large machete I was holding might have had something to do with it.

VERY large, with a 1/4″ thick forged steel blade, and razor sharp. It was sometimes used to cut open steel drums. NOT your cheap sheet metal disposals type of thing at all. Probably from the late 1800s.

Cheers

[Chris H]

Nutjobs on the trails are few and far between.  Agreed.  But it happens.  Speaking of long scary knives, we unfortunately just had one of these nutjobs here on the AT just south of here in VA that put his machete to use and killed one guy, cut up a girl.  The other folks got away.  But this animal had already been picked up for threatening people in TN and nobody would press charges.  They let him go.  He was acting nuts, playing a guitar, singing loud, had a dog w him, and brandishing this knife/machete on multiple reported occasions.  Definitely not right in the head.

But had someone in that group been armed, or even had the good sense to be carrying mace, mighta turned out different.  And I concede, mighta turned out worse too.  But at least they’d have had some alternatives.  They had already tried to ‘move along’.  They had packed up and moved elsewhere, but the guy followed them down the trail, in the dark, following their headlamps.  The stuff of scary movies if you ask me.

Along the AT in most places, it’s largely no different than walking around town.  The trail crosses majors roads so frequently, so close to towns, you can’t help but not expect to run across some scary people.  Been on just about every mile of it here in VA over the course of my life and there have been plenty of times I’ve thought ‘ugh, that dude looks a little fishy’.

All that being said.  I think being out on a trail is like comparing driving vs flying.  Flying is still safer.  And I think being out on a trail at night, or somewhere remote, is still safer than walking around town, especially at night.  It’s just got a stigma about it for most people, cuz it’s ‘out in the woods’, and you can’t just run to a house, business, or passerby for help.  But I’d venture to say you are statistically less likely to be attacked on-trail than most anywhere else.

[Adam]

“And I think being out on a trail at night, or somewhere remote, is still safer than walking around town, especially at night.”

So true.  Never really thought about it that way.  Just like with flying, it can feel more tenuous because of the exposure and the lack of good options if things so south.  But certainly, much safer overall to stroll through the woods and sleep outside than to stroll through town and sleep outside.

[W I S N E R !]

Somewhere a different story is being told:

“Remember that time when we were offroading and that crazy guy in his underwear came out of the tent and threatened us with a machete!?  Crazy people out there!!!  I’ve been carrying a gun ever since!!!”

[Ralph Burgess]

Roger in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWl8EbNN8NM&feature=youtu.be&t=23

[Roger Caffin]

Seen that one before …

Cheers

[Ralph Burgess]

It was a bit too obvious, wasn’t it?    Anyway, seems like it’s more like the other guy pulls out something the size of Crocodile Dundee’s blade, then you say – call that a knife, and pull out something 4 feet long?

[Roger Caffin]

Chuckle.
Cheers

[Monte Masterson]

A rich, beautiful socialite like Sue Charlton going for a poor bloke like Nick Dundee? Now that’s the biggest CROC of all.

[David Thomas]

Regarding dogs scaring wildlife: The reverse is a problem in Alaska.  The dog follows a bear’s scent, realizes he’s in over his head, and runs back to his human with the bear in pursuit.  Several DLP (defense of life or property) bear shootings in our area have been of this type.

Here’s the solution: Train your dog to return to you when people or critters are ahead of you on the trail.  It only took me 3 hikes to make this a solid, always-true rule for our dog (she’s a wicked smart lab / Aussie shepherd mix and trains very quickly).  Have a solid “Come” command and use it when you sense people or critters ahead.  Praise/treat them when they return.  After only a few times, she was coming back to me long before I sensed anyone ahead due to her vastly better hearing and smell.  She’s got a certain demeanor, “Something’s ahead, I came back like you want, where’s my treat?” in those cases.  The upsides:
1) she’s back on leash before we encounter other parties of humans.
2) she’s not at risk of being mistaken for a black bear as she dashes into another group on the trail (who are better armed than trained).
3) she doesn’t scare the wildlife.
4) she isn’t stomped by moose (our most common, local, dangerous critter) nor attacked by a bear.

[DAN-Y]

Now that’s a big croc

[Adam]

+1 for David’s advice.

[Author]

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