Field Notes: Retreat from a Spring Alpine Storm

Ryan makes it pretty clear that he intentionally chose the exposed ridge, knowing that a storm was moving through, to test the Dirigo at its limits. Pretty sound reasoning for an experienced backcountry traveler. The storm ended up being a bit wilder than expected, which has certainly happened to most (all?) of us at one time or another.

Thanks @petersonallen, “Regarding the grommets…

Ryan answered the question in his review and seems to feel that it was due to being on snow, which allowed the poles to push through the grommets. Max Neale’s experience was also on snow so probably a similar reason.

which allowed the poles to push through the grommets.
That is purely and simply BAD (as in incompetent) design if it happened. The pole feet and the grommets should be carefully matched.

Cheers

Sorry, bad grammar: allowed the poles to push the grommets through (the material).

BTW, the poles = trekking poles, not a dedicated set for the tent.

allowed the poles to push the grommets through (the material).
That is just pathetic. I would be demanding a refund as ‘not fit for purpose’.

Cheers

That’s one perspective. Another is that this tents purpose isn’t camping on deep snow.

Or put something under the pole to stop it sinking into the snow. Or when on snow don’t use the grommets, whose purpose seems to be to stop the pole tips sliding sideways (On rock or similar)

I get amused reading the YouTube replies for this video. Over half of them basically scold Ryan for setting up the tent on such an exposed spot. They just can’t seem to grasp that he is a highly seasoned alpinist/backpacker who knows very well not to pitch a tent in such a place, but did so just to put the Dirigo to the ultimate wind test. It’s gotten now to where Ryan responds to all the replies about how foolish he was by saying “please see pinned comment for context”  lol

Also, at the end of the video we see Ryan on skis with headlamp on. He says he’s going to head back to the truck and hunker down for the night, but how do we know his cameraman (woman) isn’t nearby with a couple of OR Alpine bivies? I wouldn’t want to go down a mountain at night in gale force winds.

For those of you that indicated that your tent cordage slips in strong winds through Lineloc 3s, Lawson Equipment has now come up with a 2.5 mm Glowire cord that can solve the slippage problem.

https://lawsonequipment.com/Cordage/Reflective-Glowire-p1024.html

From the email I just received from Lawson Equipment:


Specs:
Diameter: 2.5mm (3/32"). Weight is 1.6 grams per foot. Average Break Strength is 350lbs. & the best part is it's 35% More reflective the 2mm Glowire due to the wider reflective strands.


Surely the long-awaited solution is for some cottage industry to commission Lineloc 1’s, which ideally work with say (1–3) mm diameter cordage. Maybe make them snap-on/snap-off as well (to tape loops)…

Lineloc V with Loop

Close enough.

Thanks, I wasn’t aware of that adjuster.

Those LineLocs are not, ime, all that reliable on string. I use ClamCleats CL266 on my winter tent guys. They did not budge overnight in our 100 kph storm written up in https://backpackinglight.com/when_things_go_wrong/

They work thus, very easily.

They are made in the UK here:
https://www.clamcleat.com/products/line-lok-cleats/mini-line-lok.html

Cheers

Lineloc 3 – after tensioning any size guyline (I use 2.7) I’ve grown accustomed to making a quick “slippery half-hitch” up against the lineloc. Stops slippage, takes half a second. I do it now out of habit even with  properly sized line, in case of super winds from da north… I can post a pic if the mental picture isn’t too clear

Would like to try the new Lawson wire!

Roger – yes, the Cam Cleats are popular here in the UK and are well worth considering.

Pros:

• They hold reliably on thin lines – I’ve never had one slip or heard of one slipping even when wet or icy
• On tarps, they stay on the line, not on the shelter, so they may be a better choice if you want the flexibility to change your rigging points
• They are light and inexpensive, but strong enough that they’re never going to fail on you in the field.
• They offer a glow-in-the-dark version that reduces the risk of someone tripping over your guylines.

Cons:

• They are a touch less convenient to use compared to the LineLoc – it’s a two-handed operation if you want to apply significant tension
• Because there’s a loop on the line, you have to be more careful to prevent tangles when storing.
• You can only shorten the line by 50%, while with the LineLoc you can shorten by almost 100%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI2Mg5BQ_mo

Hi Geoff

Two-handed – yeah, but I have two hands when I am pitching my tent.
Tangles: I ALWAYS have the ClamCleat at the tent end of the guy rope (2nd version in photo above) for that very reason. That does mean my guys are ‘doubles’ – which is better in a storm.
Shortening: yeah, maybe a limit there, but then I never change the distance of the stake from the tent by very much, so it is not a problem at all for me.
I like them.

Cheers

Roger

I agree – they are my choice as well. Reliability trumps all in a bad-weather shelter, and I’m confident that they won’t slip.

But I was trying to present a balanced view of the pros and cons for people who haven’t used them.

I mainly use the single line rig, but to prevent tangles you just move the cleat to the end of the line before storing, which takes no time at all.

For me the only real reason to prefer the LineLoc would be if you can’t live with the max 50% shortening. But like you, that’s no a problem for me with my setup.

The cam cleats, which small version I use on some of my tents with thin cord, are a little unsatisfactory in aesthetic terms – not just appearance, but in terms of functional aesthetics, though I like the glow-in-the-dark. They look like they should be mounted on a surface, not free floating.
I wouldn’t secure a Lineloc 3 with a half hitch. If you need to strike your tent in a hurry and the wind is strong, the half hitch may be under considerable tension, and difficult to release, especially with thin cordage. I have had that happen when the Linelocs had been slipping in fairly extreme conditions as the tent failed, and I had half-hitched them to secure them. Never again.

Clamcleats vs Linkoc3s depends on the tent and the use of the guyline IME.
For guylines that are tensioning the fly sheet but not from the perimeter, they work well.
For guylines that are tensioning the fly sheet from the perimeter, the lack of ability to shorten them completely is a problem.
For guylines that are tensioning the apex of trekking poles, I find it useful to use one hand to pull the trekking pole and increase tension, so I prefer Linkoc3s, though Clamcleats can work.

I would not use ClamCleats near the ground: wrong device. To tension the pole sleeve over the poles down to ground level I use bungee cord and a cordlock. You would think it would slip, but it never has.

Cheers

Hey Robert

Yeah im sure that must’ve sucked, especially with thin line. What kind of tent was it?

I only use 2.7mm reflective pro line from MLD in lineloc3.  To be clear I use a “slippery” half hitch not a regular half hitch.  There is a little tail to pull to release it quickly. I used this during the polar vortex last winter, the tent was shaking pretty violently all night, and got 18” of snow  that I had to periodically whap off the walls…  Maybe because the line is the right size and didn’t slip much anyway but the slippery hitch loosened up like usual in the morning.  I wouldn’t use a half hitch either… if that is indeed what you did during that crazy storm

I am not sure it matters either way.

There is enough flex in a tent that I can unhitch the guy rope from the stake without touching the adjuster, even if it is jammed or knotted. In fact, I usually pitch the tent by moving the stake to the right position before I stick it in the ground, and don’t make any adjustment.

On the other hand, I could not have undone the adjuster or undone a half hitch after that storm anyhow, because the guys were encased in solid ice to at least a thumb thickness. No kidding! I could unhitch from the stake because the stake was buried and not iced up.

Cheers

I think if the line is already slipping under very blustery coastal conditions and high wind, even a slippery hitch will get jammed up, but I might be wrong. It was many years ago, and the tent failure was from apex seams disintegrating on a then Cuben tarp tent, and I have much earlier described this in other threads, so will let sleeping dogs lie.

apex seams disintegrating on a then Cuben tarp tent
Ouch! Sounds terminal!

Cheers

It was, but don’t want to reawaken that horrible experience. Though I concede the guy line selection was my fault. They only started slipping when conditions got extreme.