Fastest Boil Time ?

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

What is the fastest boil time you’ve seen achieved? What fuel and what pot metal? Maybe Eric has had some good times with his rocket fuel experiments prior to demise of lab #1:-)

 

 

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Here’s the right one:

 

[David Thomas]

So we’re trying to beat 3:21 = 201 seconds to boil (55F to 212F) 2 cups = 1 pint = 0.473 liters?

That doesn’t seem hard.  At all.

REI.com has a JetBoil Flash at 3:20 to boil a full liter, a Mini Mo at 4:30 per liter , and a JetBoil Zip at 2 (because it doesn’t hold a full liter) x 2:30 = 5 minutes.  The fastest I fold in my brief search was the JetBoil miniJoule at 2:40 for a full liter (although it’s $179 and 1.2 pounds).  Of course, those are all with iso-butane and with a heat-exchanger pot.

I suspect, if I pulled out all the stops, I could boil a pint in well under a minute.

 

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

In a recent thread, Karen said:

I have only tested the Windburner at home so far, and immediately burned my hand grabbing the wrong part to get the pan off the burner, doh. Good reason to test at home first! User error, to be sure, but I’m still going to call the stove the Handburner. Other than my own mistake, I like it, it was 2 minutes to a full boil, easy to pour. Not sure the pot and cozy will work for keeping food hot off the burner. I may make a separate better cozy for it, since that’s how I usually cook.

[Jerry Adams]

Isn’t a generic butane canister stove 3 minutes?

Oxy acetylene flames are hotter than butane or alcohol.  Maybe that’s not what’s critical to get a fast boil time.  Instead it’s to have a broad flame across a large area of a pot?  And up the sides?

Beer can pot has a smaller surface area.

I assume an oxy acetylene flame would normally cut through that aluminum like butter, but not with water in it.  Sort of like boiling water in a paper cup over a fire.

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

I’ve always wondered what effect Oxy acetylene would have on speed of boiling water. I suspect it’s distance from most hottest point of the Oxy acetylene flame tip, to the bottom of pot. In the video, it may have been the pot was not close enough to the sweet spot of the torch flame. It always amazed me how water could absorb heat so fast from a canister stove and that is what led me to have an interest in the Oxy acetylene demo.

[Jerry Adams]

Good line of thinking, could lead to something practical, or just general geekiness is good too : )

[Gary Dunckel]

I would think that Cascade Designs (MSR Dept.) would have thought of the acetylene approach. Instead, they came up with the radiant burner (Reactor and Windburner), which seems to produce the fastest boil of all the stoves that I’ve had experience with.

But yeah, Jerry, general geekiness is a good thing, and Dan and I might be a couple of BPL’s geekiest. Jon Fong and Dan Dursten are probably the most creative, but they’re cool and not at all outwardly geeky. David Thomas ranks right in there too, as does Bob Moulder.

Still, to paraphase the Nike ad, Jerry, are we geeky ENOUGH? I mean, no one has figured out a way to employ UL mirrors, titanium, and cuben fiber to achieve a lightning-fast water boil. At least not yet.

[Matt Dirksen]

I know it’s still a few years off, but I’m looking forward to seeing a lightweight & portable induction heating system. Like a smaller version of this.

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Matt, watching that video you linked to gave me geekie goosebumps when I saw the knife blade get red hot. Just think of a Ti spoon placed in the coil for a few seconds and then dipped into a cup of cold coffee. Do that for 15 seconds and POW, cuppa java in 30 seconds. They’ll have one of those coils at every shelter along the Appalachian Trail  powered by an array of solar cells.

Gives me geekie bumps:

[David Thomas]

Just did a quick test of boil time using a BRS-3000T and Optimus Terra Weekend HE 0.95-liter pot, $30; (not my favorite HX pot, but I just lent out my BULIN S2400 1.5-liter which is $25-26 on AliExpress or eBay).

At 0:00, one pint (473 grams) of water was at 68F.  I put a cotton bandana around the pot as a cozy.  At 1:00, I looked inside and it was steaming and ready to make tea, hot chocolate or reconstitute most things.  It started venting steam and when I looked inside at 1:17, it was already a rolling boil.  That probably happened at or before 1:12.  Butane burn was through 1:22 was 5.5 grams, so 4.8 grams to boil.

72 seconds to boil a pint of water over a $16 stove.  I’m not sure this is a problem in desperate need of a better solution.

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Ok, we convince Bernzomatic to make 1/4 lb. 100% butane canisters. Roger will then create a stove that will prevent flame liftoff. The adapter, tank to stove already exists. Use an aluminum  5 inch diameter pot, 2 cup capacity to boil the 2 cups in under 1 min. 

[David Thomas]

And to calculate the efficiency of that boil, one pound of water from 68 to 212F absorbs 144 BTU.  4.8 grams of butane has a heat of combustion of 208 BTU (net if you don’t condense the steam) or 225 BTU (gross, if you do condense the water vapor).  While some water vapor may have condensed initially, it’s all gone by the time the water is boiling, so 144/208 = 69% of the heat value was captured in the water (plus another 6% of the heat went into heating the aluminum pot).  Quite good.  Kitchen pots on the gas kitchen stove top absorb about 35-40% of the heat of the flame.

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

David, you have stepped over the GEEK Line. That was super awesome of you to do the tests and photos. I’m a big fan of the HE pots. I need to purchase another BULIN. I reduced the one I had to a 2 cup volume. I had great results with it using the OTHER fuel (alcohol). Had awesome results with Sterno Inferno pot also.

With the right HE pot, 100% Butane canister and modified pocket rocket with correct flame pattern we have no need to look further. There will no longer be a want for alcohol and esbit stoves.

Dr. Thomas said (worth repeating):

And to calculate the efficiency of that boil, one pound of water from 68 to 212F is 144 BTU.  4.8 grams of butane has a heat of combustion of 208 BTU (net if you don’t condense the steam) or 225 BTU (gross, if you do condense the water vapor).  While some water vapor may have condensed initially, it’s all gone by the time the water is boiling, so 14/208 = 69% of the heat value was captured in the water (plus another 6% of the heat went into heating the aluminum pot).  Quite good.  Kitchen pots on the gas kitchen stove top absorb about 35-40% of the heat of the flame.

 

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Roger, what’s your fastest boil time for 2 cups using a canister stove?

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Dan

Dunno. I never run any of my stoves hard as that drops the efficiency too much for my liking. Frankly, whether it takes 60, 90 or 120 seconds is not something I care about.

There is a reason for this: I am usually doing other things at the same time. For morning tea, usually somewhere with a view, while the stove is heating the water I am getting the cups out, finding a tea bag for Sue, and then setting up my coffee filter and putting coffee in it. Similar activity in the evening, preparing dinner. Sometimes I think the stove could take a little longer so I am not so rushed. :)

Cheers

[James Marco]

Ha, ha….yes Roger! Dan, no I never timed a boil but got 4.5g/.5L (16.9oz) after 5 groups of 5 tests, average. Using the V1 Caffin Stove, I heated it about 5-6 min in a grease pot. But, I also made some mods to the stove to lighten it. And, after a couple bends to the pot holders, fits a JetBoil SOL cup. I believe the weight is close to 83gm, overall, for the stove hmmm…just under 3oz.

[Roger Caffin]

I also made some mods to the stove to lighten it.
Blimey – where???
Photos?

Cheers

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Thanks Roger.

There are 2 questions that are always asked when a new stove is discussed.

1.  How much does it weigh?
2. How long to boil 2 cups.

[David Thomas]

Yeah, but that second question should only be asked at REI.

At BPL, the questions should be:
1. How much does the stove weigh?
2. What pot is it most efficient with?

3. How much fuel does it use, with that pot, to boil 500 ml?

4. How does it behave in the wind?

The whole minimum “time to boil” is usually silly since we don’t operate it full-throttle.

Caveat: for large groups, using large pots, especially HX pots, operated in cold climates; then max heat output starts to matter.  Because you’ll need more heat output to get the job done, and you’ll be using a higher or the highest setting to finish the job and minimize losses to the environment.

“Fuel to boil 500 ml” is meaningless without specifying the pot.  It’s easy to do a little better with a wider pot and do much better with an HX pot.

And unless the stove is not burning all the fuel (and therefore probably making lots of CO), stove efficiencies, when paired with the ideal pot, won’t vary much.  But what is the ideal pot for a particular stove (and how much does that pot weigh)?  Until that’s determined, I’d like to see both “fuel weight to boil one liter with a Stanco Grease Pot” and “fuel weight to boil with ——- HX pot.”

[David Thomas]

“I am usually doing other things at the same time.” has pushed me towards alcohol (or potentially Esbit).

After watching Manfred in the Brooks Range and in the Aleutians, and after DanY kindly gifted me with some alcohol stove set-ups, I appreciate that once I’ve put a measured amount of alcohol in, I can putter around, set up camp, take a whiz, or frankly, just stand up straight and not hover over a canister stove to turn it off exactly when it reaches a boil.

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

So many times we hear “Jet Boil” hahaha “JET” equates to FAST. Canister equates to FAST.

David is so correct when he says ” I appreciate that once I’ve put a measured amount of alcohol in, I can putter around, set up camp, take a whiz, or frankly, just stand up straight and not hover over a canister stove to turn it off exactly when it reaches a boil.”

We need take time to “smell the coffee/roses”

I have been fascinated by the ability of water to absorb heat fast. Just curious what the fastest time was to boil 2 cups. That’s all……just curious.  If I had an acetylene torch I would experiment with a 500ml titanium pot to to satisfy my curiosity. I would get the torch positioned at the sweet spot or maybe just stick the torch head into the 2 cups like this yikes….just kidding

[David Thomas]

Fastest time to boil water: Add concentrated hydrochloric acid to sodium hydroxide.

Instantly boiling (and salty) water.

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

See there….David of Kanai has turned into full GEEK 

[Matt Dirksen]

“I am usually doing other things at the same time.” has pushed me towards alcohol (or potentially Esbit).”

Agreed. While I tend to use the canister stoves in group settings, there is also something I simply love about alcohol/esbit:

it’s so quiet. And If I eventually hear something, it’s usually the water boiling.

 

And yet when I get home, I’m just as content doing one or two things while boiling a kettle full of water in a bit over a minute on a 3,700 watt induction hob.

“A watched pot over induction most definitely boils… ;>D ”

 

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