Extend my lower limit of sleeping system: Down puffy and pants versus 2nd Quilt

I use puffy + down pants under quilt with good results.  Have not noticed a loss due to compression. I sometimes drape the puffy over my torso under the quilt…no compression there.

Thanx.  Do you have an estimate on degrees of temp this is lowering your warmth?

No idea really…that will be a very personal thing. Been down to upper teens in a 30 deg revelation.

My opinion here is the classic “series of one”, not scientific.  I sleep cold. A 20 degree quilt only gets me to 30F even with a high R pad. I often wear a puffy jacket and pants under my quilt.  When I roll from my back to side, I am keenly aware of my lower back and rump being cold for about 5 minutes.  I put up with that inconvenience because the puffy pants and jacket can be worn for other purposes.

Yes, it’s possible to use clothing to stay warm in temps lower than the rating of the quilt. I sleep a little cold and used a Montbell puffy and down pants to take a 20 degree quilt into the mid teens and was nice and warm. I also used an Xtherm pad.

I would have been cold in just pants and long underwear.

Or…an appropriately rated sleeping bag, and leave the down pants at home…? Probably save weight and sleep warmer that way. Of course some folks are uncomfortable in a bag.

If you need down pants for hanging out, it must be pretty cold. I wonder if quilts were designed with the idea of having to use two to stay warm. What would happen if you punched numbers starting with an appropriate bag instead?

Or…an appropriately rated sleeping bag, and leave the down pants at home…? Probably save weight and sleep warmer that way. Of course some folks are uncomfortable in a bag.

If I am static, I get cold at 75 degrees and I like to lounge around at camp, so I’m fine with the weight penalty of having a heavier down jacket and pants, especially for the mornings.

I’ve used a EE Enigma 40* quilt down to freezing with a Arcteryx Cerium LT hoody (3.4 oz fill weight), Borah Gear down pants (3 oz fill weight), and Enlightened Equipment Booties (4 oz Climashield Apex) in a t-shirt and boxers on a XTherm and I was comfortably warm.

I swapped out the Cerium LT for a Montbell Alpine Light Down Parka (4.8 oz fill weight) and picked up Alpha 60 hoody and leggings so I’m guessing mid 20s with the same quilt.

If I was more of a hike, eat dinner, and go straight to sleep type person I would definitely carry a 20-30* bag, ditch the down pants, and go with a lighter down jacket.

They will definitely add a lot of warmth to your total system. In general I would not think mainly of the fill weight but instead measure the total loft of your bag/quilt and loft of each down garment. The garments will be not be as efficient as adding the same amount of loft to a bag or quilt but they will be pretty good (I believe I usually estimate around 30% less efficient per inch of loft approx ). If you contact the Nunatak people they have a similar sort of calculation and I am sure they are more accurate than me.

I think the bigger question though is….what down pants do you have that weight 6 ounces total bit have 5 ounces of down?!? That’s pretty insane

The idea of a Ghost Whimperer up top and down pants for your lower level also sort of cracks me up considering just how little down the Ghost Whimperers have – you are probably going to want a significantly loftier jacket up top if you want to actually extend that sleep system in a balanced way between your top and bottom. I find that down jackets with extra lofty / thick hoods work by far the best for this since quilts have no hood. Just going by fill weight makes estimating the seriousness of the hood difficult and I’ve found that a lot of jackets really skimp out in this area unfortunately.

Once you start pushing quilts lower and lower your attachment and seal matters much more – if you are not strapping the quilt to your body in some way you will definitely want to do this as it can be a big increase in warmth Vs just strapping to the pad. The nice thing about the down jacket + pants inside a quilt though in any situation is that if any drafts do get in your nicely insulated from them by the garments – I pretty much always wearing something like that inside my quilt even if it’s not reauired. Don’t forget the down socks or at least thick fleece !

Edit: don’t forget if course that some quilts are comfort rated and others more towards limit rating and it’s important to know which yours is and how warm you sleep.

Down pants can add some modulation to your sleep system, especially when it gets too warm for your quilt. In addition to wearing in the evening/morning, down pants make putting a leg out or getting up at night less bracing.

Really appreciate everyone’s feedback.  It really helps.  In the end I think I just have to bite the bullet and test this fall.

My bad on quick type, down pants have 3.5oz fill versus 5oz (would be a miracle piece of gear!).  All in I think I would have 3 – 3.5″ of loft with 20* quilt and down puffy and pants (hood and booties too).  So best guess against my temp baselines is 10-15*F, versus 0-10* with two quilts, and save 9oz.

Or get 0* bag with overstuff but carry > weight, or 30 *Apex quilt/bivy and carry even more weight.

Thats what makes this hobby fun….

Hope you have some good pads

I don’t like to do quilts below about 15F. I switch to bags around there. Often also wearing the down items inside the bag

Also if you want to test the apex overquilt idea on the cheap you can just buy a raw piece of climashield apex and drap it over your bag or quilt. Buy whatever thickness you think is necessary (or it might be better to do two layers of a thinner thickness as the loft is not super consistent on a whole sheet). I have done this over my 0 degree bag in the past. It is not super durable obviously but it is extremely light since you do not need to sew on face fabric and apex already comes in sheets so its not like a loose synthetic fill or something. I considered it semi disposable but it actually held up just fine the few times I did it.

In its early days BPL actually sold gear.  Included were a puffy top and bottom, at around 8 oz each, for a size XL.  It was never clear to me what the insulation was; but am sure it was one of the better synthetics.  (Ryan J. knows, though.)  So bought a pair.

The great thing was that in cold weather, (which was colder then than cold is now), the puffies were great for cooking and eating and other camp chores, like getting water, for example.  They were also quite water repellent, much more so than down.  But would throw on the rain jacket if the water source was a ways away.

At bedtime, the puffies could be worn in the sleeping bag and over a light fleece top and Tee, along with puffy slippers.  So I think the puffies were a good example of how layering, coupled with their dual use, provided more warmth than alternatives.  Which is the reason they remain part of my kit, even though the bag has changed to a 20 oz Montbell spiral down bag that alone handles temps down to high 20’s (F).  With the fleece and the puffies, I’ve never been cold, but do not get up at night to check air temps.

A set of down puffies would make the kit a few oz lighter; however, not sure that I’d want to wear them outside the tent or shelter when nature calls in the middle of a rain storm.  No problem with the synthetic, water repellent puffies, though.

Since there has been no need for a down top, I’ve never researched the market for puffy down tops and/or bottoms; so that remains to be done by the reader.  But basic layering and dual-use has provided the warmest approach for the weight in all temps except the dead of winter.

Note that I hike in May through October in the north country of New England and all over Colorado.  In hellish weather, I’ll stop early and get into the tent at lower altitudes on the route, and wait until the next day for the climbing above timberline.