Experience with Z packs Octa Fleece hoodie or pants (vs. alpha direct)

https://thinkecofabrics.com/collections/octa%C2%AE-fabrics

info about octa

You can just buy it where AD is difficult to find

This is more MYOG related and doesn’t directly answer your question

No experience with ZPacks, but my MH Airmesh is the same 85 gsm Octa, and it is my favorite Winter shirt/base. It is slightly less warm than AD90, which is a good thing in my experience. AD90 is too warm as a base, except in very cold weather. It works better as a mid layer (for me).

The smooth finish of the Octa makes it easier to wear AD over it. AD can be “grabby”.

Personally, I like the half zip. I use it frequently to adjust heat. MH’s half-zip Airmesh is my all-time favorite (but is no longer available). The ZPacks half-zip hoody is probably the closest thing you can still get.

I heard about octa from bill, just to give attribution : )

I have two different Mountain Hardware Airmesh tops that use Octa fabric, one is a baselayer and one has a windshirt-like shell and they are each designed to work a little differently.

At least the way MH is using it, there is a smooth side and a fuzzy/looped side of the fabric. In my experience so far, the looped side of the baselayer sticks like cellophane if you sweat (e.g. coming into a warm house after a cold run) while the smooth side seems to soak up sweat slightly better and doesn’t stick to the skin as much. If I take off layers, the baselayer dries pretty quickly. The top with the shell has the smooth side of the Octa fabric against the skin so is clearly designed to mitigate the lower ventilation.

One other thing to note is that neither of these Octa tops stretch much, so consider sizing up the pullover to make pulling it over easier.

Another distinction between Octa and Alpha is that Alpha comes in different weights/thicknesses, so you can choose how much warm air you trap.

I dislike that Zpacks sewed in additional weight with the unnecessary front hand-warmer pouch.

Apart from that, I’ve got nothing to offer :)

at thinkecofabrics they have many weights of octa, about the same as AD

I’m thinking about getting some for a base layer shirt.  Dustin, it sounds like a baselayer would work good.

Jerry, I know that clothing is highly personal and everyone has their own favorites, but the combination of an Octa shirt and AD mid-layer work so well for me that I cannot help suggesting the combo. Part of the synergy comes from the smooth outer finish of the Octa, which slides nicely under the more-fuzzy AD mid.

I don’t need hood or pockets on the shirt, although a half-zip is nice, and a mock-turtle collar is useful.

I would consider AD 120 for the mid-layer. AD 90 is fine, but I suspect that AD 120 would be just as good most days, and maybe a little better on colder days. Hood and full-length zipper work well on the mid-layer.

Windbreaker over both, and a vest on top for very cold weather.

I see in the descriptions of both the zpacks octa hoody and pants that they are “imported”…no mention of source.  Is ZPacks now outsourcing production?

AD or octa as a mid layer is not optimized for weight

a mid layer of synthetic insulation such as Apex has twice the warmth per weight as fleece

although if you only need half the insulation, like if you’re exercising vigorously, maybe that’s okay.  Other people have also said they like a fleece mid layer

Yes, exactly. It makes an excellent active mid layer. Dumps heat faster when you open your shell, too.

Apex is warmer, but most commercial stuff doesn’t breathe anywhere near as well. Timmermade’s Apex might… yours, too, maybe? For the rest of us, the difference in performance is substantial.

Alpha doesn’t breath so its a premier synth static layer (high clo/oz, on par with the best synth loose fiber fills) but pretty sweaty as an active layer and (realistically) requires a face fabric, adding weight and constraining breathability further

Airmesh is a bit heavier than alpha direct and takes longer to dry but is more durable (in the wash and worn).    I wear the octa in the winter over mesh+Lifa base layer when its cold enough. I sweat too much at the pace I like to use octa directly on skin.   I also bushwack a lot in winter, so AD is out of the question used that way.  Octas held up fine for me in some tight quarters

Corner season backpacking, the octa gets used to sleep in and in camp as another warmth layer.

I’m still using a light fleece (the Decathlon) in winter for breaks, and 3 season in camp, and as an emergency extra sleep layer.   Also use it in winter hiking but below ~ -18C.

I plan on switching the fleece out for 120 AD for more warmth at less weight.  Coupled with the airmesh, it’ll cover a pretty wide temp range. Waiting for a quarter or half zip without a hood that doesn’t cost a kidney in Canada.

So for me, AD is good static, or below -18C active but I think I’m in the minority and a lot of people use AD90 on the move.  I’d die moving in it except in deep Canadian winter

Typo: I meant Apex doesn’t breathe as well as AD (as Bill points out, given its face fabrics)

Thanks for the input, all. I was looking at the Zpacks hoodie as a midlayer for shoulder season hikes.

I didn’t put much thought into what baselayer I’d use. Likely interchangeable. My current favorite is my nuyarn Outdoor vitals tern hoodie or the Patagonia capilene merino blend 100 wt baselayers. I should do more thinking on a baselayer though. I like Bill’s idea of AD over Octa.

Love the Zpacks hoodie but hate the pants.  I personally love having the pockets, the anorak style with kangaroo pockets is my favorite design.  It it will replace my Lightheart AD pullover that also has a kangaroo pocket but I like the Zpacks better as the pockets sit up higher while the Lightheart Gear’s extend to the bottom hem.

For the pants, I found the fit to be awful and returned them.  Way too baggy in the tush area while legs ride up a little when walking.  I wanted something I could use as active wear which these are not.  They are advertised as “Camp Pants” for whatever that’s worth.  I notice the Octa material has 2-way stretch and Zpacks design has the stretch going width wise.  They may be better served going length wise for the pants.

Does anyone make Octa camp pants? I love my MH Airmesh on bare skin. Think it would be great around camp/sleeping. Love my AD pullover w quarter zip, but AD would be less useful sa camp.pants. AD for sleeping only?

I’ve owned an AD90 hoodie for 6 years (still going strong) and an MH Airmesh hoodie for 2+.

The big difference for me is that the Airmesh starts smelling bad after just a day or two of use, whilst the Alpha Direct is still bearable after a week. (This is to my own nose – I might stink sooner to others!).

Bill – I don’t know of anyone making camp pants, but I bet you could use the learnmyog “camp pants” pattern to sew up a pair.   The pattern was designed for stretchy fleece like AD but I see no reason why they couldn’t be sewn out of Octa instead.   Making a pair is on my “todo” list.

https://youtu.be/9cjRt1CszI4 video where Discovery Fabrics talks about the pattern and the tweaks they made while sewing a demo pair.

<p>I have a MH Airmesh and Farpointe and Senchi AD 90’s.  My observations:</p><p>For me, Airmesh fuzzy side in is itchy.  I know you can invert it and wear it smooth-side in.  AD doesn’t itch me.  </p><p>AD90 is warmer as a static layer under a wind shell.  AD seems to be more breathable (let’s more air through) although Airmesh still lets plenty of air through too. </p><p>I don’t really do high exertion anymore so place a bit more premium on slow moving and static insulation properties.  AD is my first choice, then Octa.</p>

As several have mentioned, preference for Alpha vs Octa mesh is often use-case dependent.

I just carried and used both garment types on 10 days of trail clearing in Gila Wilderness Area of NM.

Days were at or below freezing in mornings with coldest at 21F, and 2 days had very high winds.

In the mornings after hiking from camp, I started clearing work (crosscut, Silky, loppers) wearing a Brynje PP SS base under a Smartwool 150 g LS merino-nylon hoodie and then an Octa LS hoodie (mine Mountain Hardware, 5 oz) on the outside.

The balance of warmth plus breathing of exertion moisture was just right for the first hour or 2.  As work waxed and waned, hoods went up and down to adjust. Then, as the day warmed more, the Octa came off and went into backpack.

An Alpha layer plus a snag-protective windshirt, instead of the Octa on the outside, would have had me steamed.

A grid fleece outer to replace the Octa would have been my prior for warmth plus snag resistance, but a grid would also have made me sweatier, even with zipping and unzipping, in addition to weighing ~2x.

In the evenings, the Octa was added back AND the 4 oz Alpha hoodie went on top of that before crawling into down. I sleep cold.

The point being, I would never hike overgrown trail with my Alpha on outside, but the Octa was undamaged even when directly engaging blowdowns and brush snarls comprising Gambel, Robenia, and other.

And, the Alpha layer was great to have along also for use during snag-free nighttime.

I bushwacked on/off ~ 10 days with MH airmesh Octa as my outer layer this winter, a lot of it in tight quarters.  Never say never, but no damage to mine

Alan W , curiously on my 10 day backpack in the Gila over Christmas was the first time I used Octa! It did fine despite those deadly locust bushes in fire recovery areas.

Thanks for your work! What region did you clear?

With team, about 5.1 miles of Mimbres Trail # 77 from TH off FS-150 down to river and on upstream. All logs, great brushing, and tread /drainage.

Solo, CDT Connector Trail #741 from same Mimbres TH up to CDT junction 3.2 miles, all logs and good brushing.

With team, a segment of CDT NE of Brannon Park to TH on FS-150 N of Rocky Canyon CG, all logs & limited brushing.

Credit to Melissa Green and the very strong Gila Trails & BCHorse organizations. Great planning and broad participation.

Melissa was very helpful with information about water sources for our loop hike