Esbit stoves for small water boils?

Are you planning on providing your own food or will you use some provided by Philmont? It makes a big difference. After watching folks utilize esbit/alcohol stoves to different results on the AT I can tell you that certain foods just won’t re-hydrate without a good boil. If there’s a way you can share some boiling water from the pot you’d be best advised to do that.

In 2010 we hiked with a crew that had a member who asked Philmont to deliver his personal food to each resupply point. Not one of his meals made it to him the entire trek. I’m not sure how you get them to deliver it but you may want to double check.

BK

As a Philmont Ranger for the past 2 summers I can give my advice. However, that doesn’t necessarily reflect the policies and rules of Philmont itself.

The 2017 Guidebook to Adventure states under the Backpacking Stoves section (page 15) that individual stoves for hot drinks are acceptable. While it doesn’t directly state that they are permitted for separate Special Foods meals, I have allowed crews to take a separate stove to keep dinner items separate due mostly to allergies. That section says that Biofuel stoves are not permitted due to changing fire restrictions, so you could go into or out of a fire ban just within the 7 or 12 days you’re on the trail. That section doesn’t include anything about Esbit stoves. However, I believe they resemble on “open flame” more than an actual stove i.e., no separate fuel that can easily be cut off, so I would assume they wouldn’t be permitted. That is simply my individual opinion so I would contact Philmont at camping@philmontscoutranch.org  or (575) 376-2281 so you can be put in touch with the upper leadership of the Ranch.

That’s unfortunate that that individual’s special meals weren’t able to get to them. You will separate your individual meals by day of the trek and then they will be delivered to the same commissary camps where the rest of your crew will receive their food. So you will have the same food ration time lengths as the rest of your crew. If the roads are difficult to drive through, it can make it more difficult for the Ranch to get your food from Base Camp out to each necessary camp. I hope that helps and have fun!

Ranger Hamon, do you think this type alcohol stove with shut off valve could get approved by Philmont if I were to take one to the Ranch and present it to the upper leadership?

I can’t say for sure whether or not that stove would get approved; however, based on personal opinion only, I would say it’s worth bringing to Philmont to ask about it. Depending on how you’re traveling, you will be given lockers in Base Camp (unless you’re traveling by car and then you store things in your car) so you can store any gear you don’t need or can’t take into the backcountry. I would say, at least, bring the stove to Philmont to ask about it and then, if it doesn’t get approved, store it in Base Camp while you’re on the trail. IMO I think it would be fine because it might still be an “open flame” but it does have a “shut-off valve” so it should be fine. However, that’s is strictly a personal opinion, which doesn’t necessarily reflect that of the Ranch, so you would still need to get it approved by the Ranch itself, regardless of my personal opinion. You could try contacting Philmont, likely at camping@philmontscoutranch.org, to try to get it approved before your arrival by including the video you linked here and a description of why you believe it doesn’t count as a simply “open flame” stove, as discussed in the Philmont Guidebook to Adventure. Hope this helps!

Thank you Ranger Hamon. I’ll send an email to the Ranch with a link to the video and explain that the positive action of the slide valve would comply with regulations found in the Philmont Guidebook to Adventure.
You’ve been very helpful, thank you very much.

Dan

I can’t speak to the stove part (though I did have an advisor bring an alcohol stove – unknown to me until it appeared one morning).

The procedure for special food has changed over the years, The last time we needed special diet, food was brought to Logistics with the Crew Leader, already packaged and labeled by day. We never had a problem receiving the meals.

+ 1 to checking with Philmont.

While i personally use a Zelph stove for non BSA camping and think they are very safe, I do not think even the Zelph stove would pass muster with a land management agency as a positive shut off valve stove. Some of the USFS jurisdictions have started to add phrasing allowing during fire season only “pressurized liquid fuel stoves”.

For the record, the BSA chemical fuels policy recommends against but does not prohibit alcohol stoves. The policy does prohibit “Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified,… ” including alcohol burning  can alcohol stoves.

I guess I must ask, why all this interest in departing from the patrol method for the cooking?

I have three tracks coming for my troop. All three tracks will be doing the patrol method of cooking. I am bringing a special diet just for myself. All of it can be rehydrated with the water from the patrol method cooking. I was looking more at small boils for coffee at stops during the day.

Assuming that you’re not using Esbit, given Philmont regs, afterward you might consider using a Toaks 550, an Esbit tri-wing stove (they’re getting a little harder to find, but still out there) and a small aluminum windscreen.

I have just such a setup and it will boil 2 cups of water using 2 of the 5g Esbit tabs, and one 5g tab will also boil 1 cup of water so that you don’t have to deal with blowing out 14g tabs and re-igniting the leftovers for another boil. Also, the Snow Peak Hot Lips thing works with the Toaks 550.

Try using the non spill Starlyte Burner with a DIY pot support. Philmont will like the no spill feature.

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/starlyte-burner-with-lid.php

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What kind of stoves are your crew’s using? If they are using isobutane, I’d think bringing a 25 gram, $17 BRS-3000T along should do the trick.

And given that the BSA’s national policy prohibits using alcohol, and Esbit stoves might be considered an “open flame”, I’m not sure what other practical options you have.

Not to nit pick, but BSA prohibits “home-made” stoves, and alcohol is only “Not Recommended”.

Ed, does that mean it can be used with caution?

We have. There are commercial alcohol stoves, Trangia and Evernew come to mind. Also, some sail boats use alcohol stoves in their galleys.

Still, not recommended, just not prohibited. Likely, since an alcohol flame is barely visible, refueling while still lit would be a problem.

“Not to nit pick, but BSA prohibits “home-made” stoves, and alcohol is only “Not Recommended”.”

Ahh. Very good point, Ed.

I’d would be curious to know if Philmont’s insurance would cover any issues relating to alcohol stoves. My scoutmaster tends to be pretty nit-picky about these things. But he’s never gotten on my case about my caldera cone, nor been too interested in what I was burning inside of it, alcohol or otherwise.

Alcohol stoves on boats are recommended because alcohol vapors rise upwards if a leak is occurring. Propane is used but extra precautions need to be taken.

Propane and gasoline vapors settle downward in a boat. Concentrations can easily cause problems.

My Starlyte burners/stoves are designed around the Origo marine stove canister.