“Emergency” rain shelter advice please

How about polycyro or a space blanket? Much lighter (and noisier) than tyvek.

Will you have walking poles? If so won’t any of the UL small tarps do the job, tucked under the mat at the head end, weighted with stones.

Would it be worthwhile buying some UL wand sections and carrying a length of tape with a pin&ring assembly at each end so you could make a hoop anywhere?

add 4 mouse parachutes for end anchors

If you are in the main corridor i have heard the NPS won’t let you put any lines outside your allotted camp space.  This essentially means your shelter has to be free standing.

Correct, in the main corridor you cannot stake or tie outside the individual campsite boundaries. However, this does not mean the tent has to be free standing.  There is plenty of space to use tent stakes.  I have used a tarp in these sites. .

I’ve used plastic tarp as emergency shelter.  I was sleeping on it, it started raining, just pulled it over me and it sort of worked.  Pointed my face to the side so I didn’t get a face full of plastic.  Too lazy to put up tent.

Tyvek would be better, less condensation on inside of tarp.  You could sleep on half and pull the other half over you.  Weight it down with rocks so it doesn’t blow away.  This would work if there was only a chance of rain.  Light rain or a passing heavier shower.

Good experiment to try and see how well it worked.

Maybe get one of those Sol tarps…

You said you’re doing the Royal Arch route, right?    WHY are you going without a rain shelter?   Even if the forecast is dry, you can’t rely on it for 5 days.  I think this is very foolish.   It’s a very remote area, with expected lows around freezing on the Esplanade this time of year.   There is no natural shelter, except some overhangs in lower Royal Arch canyon and a crappy overhang at Copper.   You are risking hypothermia and death.

You don’t need a heavy tent in the GC, and you never need bug netting.    I usually take my Hexamid tarp, around 6oz.   I don’t take tent pegs, the ground is rarely suitable.  Put large loops in the tie-outs, put sticks through them weighted with rocks.

In other words: you can leave your bivy sack at home and take a proper rain shelter for the same weight, and you are more likely to actually survive.

Leaving in 9 days, no time to order new gear. I have a roll of tyvek housewrap, I think I will just cut off a piece of that. 5’ x 9’ ? What size would you bring? I will have one pole and also a 50’ rappel rope, I think it is 8mm. But mostly camping on rock, I am not counting on stakes working.

We are doing royal arch route on west side, not really expecting to see anyone except rafters. I would be very surprised to see a ranger down there, we will camp where we drop.

Ok, I’ll say it one more time.   My base weight is about half what most people carry in the GC.   But I would never go out for 5 days without proper shelter (unless I’m on a route I know well where I know there are overhang camps).   It doesn’t often rain in the GC, but it can rain with a vengeance, and most of that route has little natural shelter.    It’s not like you’re in an area where you can hike out easily if you get into trouble.

And 5 days is ample time for the loop, you don’t need to be paring down ever ounce for speed.   What do you mean by “west side”?

I agree with Ralph 100%.

Royal arch route (my theoretical itinerary):

leave from south bass trailhead

night 1 mystic spring if I can find it

nights 2 and 3 under royal arch (my birthday!)

night 4 garnet

night 5 bass rapids

I have done this trip (except mystic spring) a few times. Been snowed on twice but survived. I have a “breathable water resistant/proof” bivvy thing (like a windbreaker  cover for my bag, not like a tent) and a sheet of tyvek. I don’t think that’s dangerously inadequate. I may suffer, but I am not going to die.

I would like to hear what the naysayers would bring. I have seen pictures of some very nice looking multi-hundred dollar ultralight tarp tents, but they all appear to require staking and I don’t think that is a feasible option here. And I don’t have one.

Thanks for all your input

Did not see some later replies

hexamid? I have a black diamond mega mid, is it anything like that? That is my go to rain shelter but very much relies on staking. I have done little bags of sand buried as deadman anchors to use the mega mid on the beach, but even that did not work great. I can’t imagine assembling enough heavy rocks to keep that thing anchored in the Grand Canyon. And the last time I moved a bunch of rocks I got bitten by a viscous spider. I still have a small hole in my leg…

Little bags don’t work all that well as anchors, mouse parachutes need to be a reasonable size but empty they weigh very little.

5*9 is marginal but I guess OK

So long as you have the wind to the low side anyway

I did the Grand Canyon back in 2005 so i may be a little dated here. All we took were individual tyvek sheets about 8×6 or there about. I remember it rained one night and I just kind of wrapped my self up in it like a burrito and was dry the rest of the night. Something similar will work. So I assume a sheet of polycro would work if its for an emergency.

You don’t need stakes.  The one thing you can always find in the Grand Canyon is tough sticks and rocks.   Make sure your tie-outs have good-sized loops on the end.   Put a stick through the loop and lay the stick flat on the ground.   Put a rock on each end of the stick.

It’s a little work to gather suitable sticks and rocks, but bear in mind that you probably only have to pitch a shelter 10%-20% of your nights in the GC.   With this method,   you don’t need to take anything with you, but when you need to do it it works on any surface, and it’s completely bulletproof.   I’ve secured my Hexamid in 60mph winds this way.   The more windy it is – just use bigger rocks to hold the sticks down.

And…. yeah –  “I went with inadequate gear and got lucky with the weather” will probably work, if you’re okay with probably surviving.   It’s the Grand Canyon.  It doesn’t rain much, except when it does.

Please, I have really appreciated your input so let’s not get in a pissing match. I in no way claim to be an expert but I am sure at this point I have spent at least a month below the rim. I make plenty of mistakes, but I am typically not wholly unprepared, and have survived thus far.

i admit that twice I thought I would die down there. Once was crossing the river on an air mattress. Bad idea. Second time I got stuck on a cliff. Could not go down, could not see a way up. I eventually followed a very scary path of sheep droppings to get up and off but again it was a bad idea. And I ran out of water on that cliff, so it was do or die.

i have wife and kids now so I try and keep it safe. Hence all the questions. I want to stack as many odds in my favor as I can.

thank you for your time and input. Please continue, I appreciate all gifts of information I can get

I’m just giving my view on what’s safe and what’s not.    You will ultimately decide what’s an acceptable risk for you, of course.   But bear in mind that this is not just about your trip – others may well read the thread when planning trips.

My approach to the GC is to cut non-essentials to the bone because you need to be agile, and because you may need to haul water.   I agree that often you see people taking pointless heavy tents, and that’s the first place to cut weight.   I pitch a shelter maybe one night in ten in the GC, so a 6oz tarp does fine unless the forecast is dire.   But I’m never going to leave that 6oz at home, it does sometimes rain hard down there.

Bear in mind that sleeping under the Arch may not be a great idea if it’s raining hard.   It’s unusual to get a significant flood in spring (it’s usually thunderstorms later in the year), but it’s not unknown.   There are some nice deep sheltered ledges about 10-15 feet above the bed on the E side that are safer if it’s raining.   As I recall they are near the exit route (i.e. a little way upcanyon from the Arch), not hard to find, but I can’t remember if they are upcanyon or downcanyon from the exit point.   [ ETA: just found some notes that say just upcanyon from the exit point. ]

It looks like you have plenty of time on the route.  Have you done Bass’s low-level route from the Copper mine around to Bass?   I have some notes on it from a couple of years ago, it’s not at all difficult.

Re: shelter

6’ by 9’ tyvek sheet and a 50’ rope? If I can’t make that work I am useless. I see where you are going with the setting a good example thing and you are right. But I think the folks on this site are not amateur, this should be a site where extreme backpackers can discuss extreme ideas not what is safest for Mom dad and the kids. Where else do we go? They can get cautious advice all day from the nice folks at rei.

re: William Wallace Bass

that is my mission on this triip, to track down as much of his legacy as I can. I have never been to mystic spring, never seen monte video. Copper mine, chimney, cable car (I hear there might have been two?) Can you share anything you have found?

Notes on Copper & the low level trail linking to Bass:

Camping & Water

There are established sites where the Tonto trail crosses Copper, but no water there.   In winter and spring, rain and trickling flow usually fills bedrock pools in the gneiss ~0.75 mile DC from the trail crossing near the mine area (see below).    The Tonto plateau promontories on both sides of the mouth of Copper also have established campsites with spectacular views in all directions.   Copper is on the inside of a 180-degree bend in the river, with the massive Shinumo drainage and Supergroup formations opposite.

Mine.

The mine area is a broad bench on the E side of Copper about 0.75 mile DC from the official Tonto trail crossing.  It is easy walking DC until some pouroffs in the schist.  Bypass these on the W side – there is an obvious place to walk up, then pick up a trail down through the pink gneiss.   The mine area may also be reached by shortcutting straight down from the Tonto trail above the mine on either the E or W side.   On the E side, there is a constructed miners’ trail down through the only break in the Tapeats cliffs, cairned but not so easy to find from above.   This trail descends to the N end of the mine bench.   On the W side the Tapeats is broken up, so you can walk down easily in several places.

Bass’s low-level trail from Copper

Bass constructed a trail below the Tapeats linking his mine in Copper with the Bass trail, and the route proved fairly easy to follow, with some of the trail still in good shape.   From the Copper mine, start by ascending the trail at the S end of the mine bench.   At a shoulder, the main trail heads right (S) to continue up through the Tapeats break to the Tonto on the E side of Copper.   Instead, take the left side of the shoulder to contour N high above the mine bench.    After about half a mile, this contouring trail turns down into a gully for no obvious reason;  perhaps there was an exploratory dig here.  (This gully does provide a moderate 3rd Class route down to the bed, but pouroffs soon prevent further progress DC.)    I placed cairns here to indicate that one should stay high and right to continue contouring around,  climbing slightly to the foot of the Tapeats cliff before turning the corner to head E.     After descending through some Tapeats ledges, you face a transverse schist  wall, at the top end of which there appears to be a boulder pile to help you up;   this turns out to be a natural formation.   There is a good trail from here.   After a straightforward crossing of the only side canyon between Copper and Bass, descend a steepish slope and turn E onto a plateau for a mile or so of easy walking.   This plateau is Bass Limestone and Hakatai Shale, much easier going than the basement rocks that are more usually found below the Tapeats.   After crossing the head of a deep schist ravine and making a steep descent, you can either continue the descent to reach the small beach opposite the mouth of Shinumo Creek,  or traverse about 200 feet above the river to connect direct with the end of the South Bass trail.