effect of water treatments on intestinal flora

I’m not a registered scientician (and I filter my water), but presumably your stomach fluids would kill all your gut flora (and digest your guts) if there wasn’t some way to protect your intestines from what you swallow.

Last I looked only the Potable Aqua iodine tablets came with a neutralizer, the Chlorine DiOxide did not.  We’ve used the ClO2 a fair amount and had no stomach problems due to messing with intestinal tract flora and fauna.  Most city water is chlorinated (not the same as ClO2) and this does not affect anyone as far as I know.

My wife and I have found over the years that chlorine dioxide tablets gave us both mild gut ache after a couple of days.  We found that standard chlorine tablets, neutralized, gave us no problems.  We eventually ditched chemicals and went with filtration (but we only hike in USA/Europe).  For me, the taste of fresh, mountain water is one of the pleasures of the outdoors.

Yes. The AquaMira can cause some loss of various gut bacteria. It promotes other bacteria. Your mouth is slightly basic (well, saliva is.) Your stomach is highly acidic and has a small amount of hydrochloric acid. Bile and other chemicals are released to bring the pH up to near normal in the upper small intestine where it stays more or less.  Breakdown often is acidic, so your body releases mucous along the way which is similar to saliva. This back and forth between basic, acidic, basic kills off all bacteria you eat, usually. A few can survive it (of all the thousands out there) and make you sick.

Adding chlorine, CLO2, etc can change the chemical composition slightly, sometimes leading to intestinal problems. I have never heard of stomach problems, but this is possible, I guess. But the stomach is highly acidic, anyway. Chemicals hang around a bit longer through the small intestines and can cause problems in some people. I believe the label on AM says something like “emergency use” or “not for long term use.”

Anyway, I gave up on filters after one froze on a spring trip. I gave up on chemical treatments due to the long wait-times (especially in cold water.) I use UV primary, and, have a few tablets for backup(chemicals) and at night, and, I can boil water if I get really desperate. Good enough for me.

I would note that changing water supply’s can often cause a temporary problem, too. This is about the same as introducing chemicals into the water at the concentrations we are talking about. So, AM/chlorine dioxide/chlorine/iodine is not what I consider unsafe or debilitating. It just takes your gut about 24 hours to catch up and readjust.

Filtering can change the taste by removing a lot of organics from water. UV doesn’t remove anything, nor, kill anything. It merely distrupts the DNA of bactera/viruses. Chemicals can change the taste of water whether it is neutralized or not. Adding any chemical ions to the water can be tasted by many people, but not all. For example, years ago, I used AM drops a lot. My daughter could taste it. I could not. She always needed to use kool-aid to cover the taste.

No methode for water treatment will render all water safe to drink. Water with large amounts of arsenic for example will pass through a filter, and will not be neutralized by chemicals or UV. For example, water contaminated with blue-green algae is often contaminated beyond drinking with the toxins produced by the algae, not the algae themselves. Special filters can remove the toxins, but, anything we use in the back-country cannot. Even the small charcoal filters only remove a small portion of arsnic or mercury, for example. Fertilizers/pesticides, are other toxins that are passed through. You need to be aware of the source whenever you go hiking.

I worried about Aqua Mira on my 7 month thru hike on the AT but never suffered anything I can tell from it. I have also been using it since before it came on the market because my friend worked there. Chlorine Dioxide is not stable so it has to be mixed at time of use. I have been told a lot of it gasses off once mixed but don’t the facts.

I’ve never met anyone who had trouble with Aquamira that wasn’t also a hypochondriac.  A relative of mine freaks out about city water and how it destroys their gut microbiome and tastes ‘chemically’… but if you put that water in a Fiji bottle and don’t tell them it is tap water they will legitimately say it is the best water they ever had.  I have no data that supports whether chlorine treatments do or don’t adversely affect some folks, but anecdotally I would posit that the mental factor is farrrrrr more significant than the physiological factor for the average person.

This WHO paper backs up James’ claim that at proper levels, chlorine dioxide doesn’t make it past the saliva/stomach barrier.

From the paper:

“At typical low drinking-water levels, chlorine dioxide would be decomposed by oxidation–reduction reactions with saliva and stomach contents (Abdel-Rahman, Couri & Bull, 1984).”

The “intestinal flora” issue is becoming an interesting one.  While I’ve read a lot about research pointing to links between health and intestinal flora, when people are concerned about disrupting their “gut health” or intestinal flora I’m not sure what exactly we’re talking about.  It seems to be becoming a panacea of sorts, often with what appears (to me, at least) to be little more than conjecture behind certain claims/concerns.

Chlorine is not selective in it’s bacteria assault. Use physical filter when available. To me it’s worth the extra couple of ounces.

What exactly makes you feel it’s “worth the extra ounces”?

Not being disrespectful, I’m curious what statements like this are based on.  Though admittedly, as I said above, I’m skeptical about claims that the approved levels of chlorine or chlorine dioxide found in drinking water are harmful for us.  The list of WHO, EPA, and CDC studies on the topic is pretty extensive.  Many other links are provided at the end of the link below, including EPA info on chlorine dioxide (Aqua Mira) specifically:

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/public/chlorine-disinfection.html

I typically filter because I think mountain water tastes good.  But I’m a little concerned about propagating the idea that chemical treatments should be avoided for health reasons when I can’t find any studies to back the claims up.  Again, I’m open to it though….

I believe we are in the infancy stage of realizing how beneficial a healthy gut biome is. It’s worth a couple of ounces carry for me not to ingest anything that may interfere with my gut bacteria. Do I know unequivocally? No, I don’t have the equipment to test that. But if it can neutralize water born pathogens it makes sense it is killing some intestinal flora. Will I never drink chlorinated water? Of course not. If given the choice will I choose untreated/filtered water over chemically treated? Every time.

Whether low levels of chlorine actually reach intestinal flora seems to be the million dollar question here.  Everything I’ve read/linked says it doesn’t stay active that long.

Not to belabor the point though, I understand where you’re coming from.

Most US water treatment plants use chlorine dioxide so if you are worried about it in your backpacking water (or at home) then run your water through a charcoal filter to remove it.

I never gave the idea of having chlorinated water in mu gut much thought but for decades I have used a charcoal filter in my kitchen sink. And when we moved to Nevada I had to get a reverse osmosis setup to make the Colorado river water palatable. The RO unit uses two charcoal filters.

“I believe we are in the infancy stage of realizing how beneficial a healthy gut biome is.”

Brad, not quite true. e Coli is a common bacteria that was first identified in the human gut back in 1895 according to a few books, 1919 by wikopedia. “Gut” bacteria have been studied for around a 100 years or longer. Basically, it is known what is there. DO NOT fall into the trap of thinking this is a new science, it isn’t.

I will reiterate. Changing water supply’s can often cause a temporary problem. Drinking well water, drinking “city” water, drinking spring water, drinking brown “tannic” water, and so on. This is the same as introducing chemicals like AM into the water. It takes your gut about 24 hours to catch up and readjust to the mineral content. Some people longer, some people shorter. Many people (most?) interpret this as some other problem, broken filters, not enough time waiting, hand washing, etc. It really isn’t.

The goal is to render all biologicals in the water inert, safe to drink. Boiling does that by killing them. UV does that by scrambling their DNA. Chemical treatments do that by killing them given enough time. Filtering does not, it simply collects them out of the water you drink. (Note: Only filtering leaves them still alive and producing toxins which is the primary reason for sickness. The toxins they release is what makes you sick…they poison you. You get a small amount of bacterial toxin every time you use a filter. This is the primary reason I do not use filters.)

When you use iodine crystals, after a couple hours you add a little acid to kill the flavour. This is the typical result of adding stuff to water. You can TASTE it. This is the one of the reasons I don’t use chemicals anymore. (Though I know small amounts of iodine are actually good for you, iodized salt for example.) The time to wait can be very long, 4-6 hours if the water is at 40F and it is not real good on crypto (AM is somewhat better,) the primary reason I don’t use chemicals anymore, though I carry a few tablets as backup.

i am confused. So how does UV solve this problem?

“(Note: Only filtering leaves them still alive and producing toxins which is the primary reason for sickness. The toxins they release is what makes you sick…they poison you. You get a small amount of bacterial toxin every time you use a filter. This is the primary reason I do not use filters.)

Arthur, Well, UV scrambles the DNA. They cannot reproduce and/or die within a few hours. They do not get into your system and start reproducing…and producing toxins. Really doesn’t belong on this thread, though. Look up UV treatments on this site, especially Roger Caffin’s articles on water treatment. There are a lot of references out there. Basically, my Opti is around 3-1/2oz w/batts (lighter than most filters,) works in around 40sec, doesn’t change flavors, is freeze proof, and is good for a LONG time (about two weeks per set of batteries/a month with a set of spares.)

I understand the UV does not kill, but prevents replication.

“You get a small amount of bacterial toxin every time you use a filter.  This is the primary reason I do not use filters.”

Are you saying the UV removes the toxins?  And what about the endotoxins present in the unkilled bacteria using UV?

Does anyone know if the amount of ClO2 in back-country water treatment is the same as you get out of the tap?  I am concerned that you are getting a stronger dose, so long term exposure based on municipal water is not appropriate to assess risk to backpackers.

HikingGranny (I think that was her handle on here… don’t think she posts anymore here) would talk about how she has developed a severe reaction to iodine due to using iodine water treatment for so long.  She has a very restrictive diet now as a result because so much food contains iodized salt.  I always found it odd that she says she now uses ClO2.  My lesson from her experience was to be leery backpacking water treatment chemicals.  It is one thing in a municipal water supply where the amount of chemical used is minimized (to minimize cost mostly).  Its another thing to use a chemical in a backpacking application where the company has to ensure adequate treatment with layman dosing the water and no way to verify effectiveness.  Also the company can make the assumption that a person will not have long term exposure.  I don’t know, but I would assume backpacking water treatment would end up with significantly more Cl in the H2O

“I believe we are in the infancy stage of realizing how beneficial a healthy gut biome is.”

Popular subject in science mags about this.  A lot of questions without answers.  Lots of scams taking advantage of so it’s hard to figure.

Chlorine isn’t a problem – gets neutralized before the gut

Eat lots of vegetables and fruits.  A little hard when backpacking, but dried veges and fruits don’t weigh too much.  And whole grain, nuts,…

Maybe probiotics work but there are a lot of scams.  “They” don’t know how many of which microorganisms to injest, and how to get it past the stomach.  I don’t think you have to worry for a short backpacking trip.

Being able to identify e.coli in the gut and knowing exactly the relationship of the gut biome and health is completely different. Fecal transplants are now becoming more common for the treatment of recurrent C. Diff infections-something my mother succumbed to before this was available. This procedure was not widely accepted until recently and is effective 80-90% of cases. We are still learning-even recently, about this. My point is we don’t know how important it is. Not here to argue, or claim I know it all. Everyone can choose to do whatever they want of course.

yeah, I agree, there is a transformation in understanding how important all those bugs are in you gut.  They release important chemicals.  Are a key part of the immune system.  Those bugs are as much us as all the other cells in our body.

“Are you saying the UV removes the toxins? And what about the endotoxins present in the unkilled bacteria using UV?”

Arthur, no. There is a difference between ingesting 100 bacteria and having a disease that can mean a 1,000,000 as they reproduce in your “gut.” A little doesn’t bother you at all and is easily excreted on a daily basis. Trapping a hundred each time in a filter, leaving it wet, then adding more fresh water, nutrients and bacteria means they are far more likely to keep growing/reproducing in your filter. I agree that back-flushing every time will clear a lot. Now, I am fiddling with the filter more than I care to fiddle. Anyway, it still sounds like a breeding ground to me. The breeding ground magnifies the amount of toxin in the filtered water a LOT. It is likely still safe, I prefer to avoid it.

Also UV scrambles DNA/RNA which forms the template for most organic toxins the bacteria produces. Scrambled, they no longer produce the same toxic chemical or even any chemical. Sort’a like cutting the heart out of an animal. Technically, the animals body parts are still living, but the organism is dead, there is no heart. (Unless you happen to stumble across a zombie.) Even the vegetables and the meats you eat still have living cells. That does not mean they will reproduce new animals, though. Scrambled DNA/RNA is like removing the heart from a bacteria. Some structures still work. Like a chicken with his head cut off. The body runs aimlessly, eventually dying. Cell walls, protoplasm, mitochondria, etc still work, but there is no direction to what they do.