EE Conundrum and or other options

The EE Conundrum has vertical baffles instead of the customary horizontal baffles.  Is that’s what’s “wrong” with it?  I wonder if that’s good or bad.  I didn’t see anything from EE about why vertical baffles are better.

If you want something like the Conundrum, take a look at Gryphon Gear. They make quality bags and have a hoodless zipper design.

Jerry, the EE problem is not so much the vertical baffles, but IMO tied to the fact that it is a very basic, low tech design with a disproportionate high price (more than a similar spec’ed Katabatic).

The nerd breakdown:

* baffles are too wide and U shaped towards the foot end. This creates a pooling area for the down to settle when the user moves around, leaving the torso area thin and cold.

* baffles are still underfilled for their volume, despite corrections EE made after complaints.

*there is no elastic edge tightening of the underside opening, despite similar systems being applied successfully by Katabatic, UGQ, Nunatak and Warbonnet

* the top edge draft collar is undersized

* finished quilts I measured were narrower than stated numbers by up to 3-5″

* in these times of unrest and increasing political violence it might be concerning to some the EE owner also runs a paramilitary supply house called Defense Mechanisms

Better to go with an Alpinlite Long from Hermit’s Hut with 3 oz plus free overfill because the shoulder and hip girths are 65″/56″ vs 63″/54″ for the Versalite. The overfill brings the Alpinlite to a 10 degree comfort limit. Badger is too heavy with its 20D shell (4 oz heavier than Alpinlite w/overfill but with same fill weight). https://hermitshut.com/collections/camping/products/western-mountaineering-alpinlite-sleeping-bag

The draft collars are serious on the Alpinlite.

If you want something like the Conundrum look at the FF Flicker UL Wide/Long in 20* rating. Might not seem warm enough but FF conservatively rates their bags. Quality is supreme. https://featheredfriends.com/collections/flicker-series/products/feathered-friends-flicker-ul-wide-down-quilt-sleeping-bag

We had two EE quilts and we have zero now. We have four Katabatics and love them all (fanboy). We also have a Nunatak Arc UL 20 that is superb, too.

I like the Katabatic and Nunatak quilts because the temp ratings run true (not 10° off), they employ a differential cut, and the quality and craftsmanship are consistently superb.

My $0.02… Money is best spent on a product you’ll be happier with in the long run. Giving it to a company whose beliefs run more in parallel with your own only affirms the decision.

@ Baja Bob…

Do you have a Gryphon Gear bag or quilt? I have heard great things about their products but never seen one in the wild.

Thanks George, nice description of the problems

Yes Jerry, everything I’ve read says that the vertical baffles are an issue and that the overall value/quality has gone down so it just makes me hesitant that’s all…

Thank you, I will give them a look..

George, lots of good info here, appreciate it. This is good to know!

Monte,

I’ve overlooked these due to the similar 20 degree rating but what you said about the overfill makes sense. I see them for resale on here occasionally so I will definitely keep my eye out for one. The specs look great.

I’ve definitely looked at Katabatic and have heard great things about them. Do they offer a hybrid quilt/bag though? I will take a closer look on their website. Thanks again!

Think I found my next purchase! This in long/wide and maybe 3 oz overfill should be perfect. Thank you for the recommendation.

https://katabaticgear.com/collections/elite-quilts/products/grenadier-5-f?variant=43139293282349

@JG H, I have a Gryphon Aries quilt. 30 degree, long wide. It has similar specs to a 20 degree EE X-wide long quilt. Well made. Akin to a Katabatic, properly comfort rated.

You might also take a look at the zpacks classic sleeping bag with zipper underneath. I like mine very much, and generally use it as a quilt.

@ Baja Bob

I may have to try a Gryphon. The only downside is that I’m an opportunistic shopper and seldom buy new unless I have no other option. Those Gryphons rarely show up on eBay or here in the Gear Swap. I suspect that’s a good thing.

@ Kevin G

Good on ya. Hope you like it as much as we like ours.

Katabatic’s customer support has been stellar for us, too, if that matters. I sent one of my Palisades back to have them add a little overfill and they did a perfect job (I can’t tell where they altered the quilt to add down to the baffles). And the turn-around time was exactly what they’d quoted me. A+

Has your name on it JG H: https://www.ebay.com/itm/256696980529?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20250324084321%26meid%3D50b4f3b4378e4462b81cf7001e5a97b6%26pid%3D101949%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D256696980529%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2WithMLRPboosterAndUpdatedFeatures_BP&_trksid=p4375194.c101949.m162918&_trkparms=parentrq%3A0f3c89461980ab1c666af3d0fffdffa4%7Cpageci%3A4041af8c-61a5-11f0-a89a-a6951fe0ad46%7Ciid%3A1%7Cvlpname%3Avlp_homepage

So,

I’ve been corresponding with someone at Katabatic and they have been very helpful.

They are also suggesting the Sawatch 15 either with no overfill or maybe 2-3 oz overfill to split the difference between a 5 degree Grenadier and the 15 degree Sawatch. The more I think about it, pretty much all of my trips will be in weather where yes it can get colder but probably not full on winter conditions. Late August to mid September in CO and WA state, as well as August to November in New Hampshire. I may do a trip or two to an cabin or hut but even then temps probably in teens at worst. I may do a late Spring trip each year too. I’m thinking of selling my UGQ 20 and just getting the Katabatic Gear Sawatch 15 as my one go to quilt. Should I throw in 2-3 oz overfill? Later on down the road maybe I get a 30-40 degree quilt if I decide to do more summer season backpacking. Currently, I don’t foresee doing that other than a sub alpine trip out west where it would likely still get pretty chilly at night in August-September.

Thoughts? Thanks

So many variables… are you a hot or cold sleeper. How warm is your pad? Do you want to sleep in clothes or skivvies? How many people in the tent and how big is the tent? What elevation in CO/WA?

My guess is that you’d be comfortable camping up to about 10k feet or so in CO/WA in mid-September using the Sawatch quilt with a warm pad (r-value > 5.0) and in a cozy tent (nothing palatial). If you’re a cold sleeper, maybe you’d want a warmer pad or an ounce or two of overfill. I tend to err on the side of cation, which is why I carry an Exped Ultra 7R and added a little overfill to my Palisade.

One quick comment on Gryphon Gear –  tension control is an option as is custom sizing.  I had an Aries made with a 58” width and tension control.  Both modifications were very affordable.  Bought several years ago so it’s possible these options are no longer available.

Not what you asked about but I’m also a weekend warrior with occasional up to week-long trips. I use an EE Revelation 20F/-9C bag with a draft collar and pad straps in shoulder seasons and through the summer. Sometimes paired with a cheap MEC synthetic sleeping bag liner in my record low temp of -9C/20F. My sleeping  pad was the limiting factor there.

The Revelation is great. 1/3 zipper at the feet and a cinchable toe box. Ultimate versatility. In the summer I bring it (or just my liner) and I’ll use it fully open like a blanket, covering maybe my belly and thighs.

I’m a big fan. Haven’t tried any other quilts. Haven’t felt the need to. Perfect BIFL UL solution, IMO.

Is anyone else offering top of the line quilts with 7d fabrics besides EE? I love Katabatic quilts (and down puffies) but I don’t see any 7d offerings. I own a couple of quilts from EE (one down and one synthetic) with 7D and love the weight savings. However, I’m also not happy with the EE baffles, even though with a little effort the down can be distributed properly.

ZPacks and HMG quilts are 7D. I believe HMG has a more realistic comfort limit rating and all you have to do is compare down fill weights to see what I mean.