Easy way to save not ounces but a couple pounds off your pack!!!!

[mik matra]

@Everyone;
-For the ones who do this, you know what I mean :-)

-For the ones who haven’t tried this; The idea is NOT to consume such a large amount of water that you are uncomfortable, or feel ill….that is too much and probably unsafe!! In hindsight I should not have said 1L but rather ‘camelling up’ as I can see some respondents are concentrating on the ‘amount’ of water. Volumes of water drank pre hike aside, the aim is simply to be a little overhydrated at the get go so you will not feel thirsty till well into your hike and thus you don’t have to lug that amount of water around with you, that’s it. Have a go…you might be pleasantly surprised :-)

Anyway, it has ‘worked’ for me, it has ‘worked’ for everyone I have introduced this idea to. No one has died. No one has fallen ill. Everyone ended up carrying less weight in water from giving this a go. If you don’t want to, no probs….iz-all-kewl, no skin off my elbows :-).

[Nick B]

Camelling up works for me. If I drink a bunch of water before setting out in the morning I find that I feel much better throughout the day. I often don’t drink for hours while hiking then tank up at a water source. Oh, and I can down a liter in one sitting, often in one tip of the canteen (I bring 40oz Kleen Kanteens to work).

It does seem that people have randomly focused on the volume of water you mentioned instead of the concept. Oh well. It’s been a long winter. Cabin fever = bunched panties.

[mik matra]

@Nick. Lol, all good. Peeps need to try it and as I said I haven’t found anybody yet who isn’t converted :-)

As a side note. I usually down about 1L of water on top of liquids consumed with breakfast at home anyway. As you have mentioned I too find that the hit of water consumption has a positive affect on my sense of well being for the day!! My naturopath put me onto this technique as part of everyday life (add half a lemon’s juice too for even more benefits!!) not just on trail as part of fixing my chronic fatigue that modern medicine couldn’t put a finger on.

[Ian]

As a side note. I usually down about 1L of water on top of liquids consumed with breakfast at home anyway. As you have mentioned I too find that the hit of water consumption has a positive affect on my sense of well being for the day!! My naturopath put me onto this technique as part of everyday life (add half a lemon’s juice too for even more benefits!!) not just on trail as part of fixing my chronic fatigue that modern medicine couldn’t put a finger on.

I’ve never worked with a naturopath but this has been my experience as well.  A liter isn’t too far off from what I drink in the morning at home anyways.  I also find that my energy level is much higher when I am well hydrated.  As far as the benefits of not carrying water, for me, I hate being thirsty more than carrying a couple extra pounds.

One of the reasons I went ultra light was to improve my enjoyment on the trail.  My total pack weight is usually under 20 lbs even when I carry a full liter of water, so not having water to drink on a hot/dusty day reduces my enjoyment more than carrying the couple extra pounds.

[Skibbs]

It makes sense but in reality all you are saying is make sure you are 100% hydrated at the beginning of your hike… I doubt this is groundbreaking.

In a perfect world I guess if there would be a way to figure out how much you sweat and how fast your body effectively absorbs water so you could figure out how to begin the hike 100% hydrated + camel up enough water at the start so that your body is absorbing water just as quickly as it is consuming/sweating it…

I have only tried ‘cameling up’ once but all I did was pee 3 times on the drive to the trailhead and 1 time on the trail before coming to the first water source lol. In fairness I drank probably 2L water over 2 hours, not right at the trailhead.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I do something similar and it works for me. But I don’t drink the water at the start of the day, instead I drink it at the time I’ve arrived at the next water source. That way the water is needed enough it will stay inside me and will get me far down the trail toward the next water source before I need to drink anything. I put some lemonade in it to help me drink it. I usually don’t drink a whole liter, but pretty close.

It worked well on my last 200 mile PCT section hike. I only needed 2 liters to get to Lake Morena from the border. Once I reached Lake Morena, I drank a liter, made my dinner and filled up enough to last through a night of camping and get to Boulder Oaks the next morning (about 1 liter — remember, my dinner was already made). Then I hiked out another mile or so and camped in the bushes so I didn’t have to camp at Lake Morena. Woke to a nice cool morning and without only about 8 miles to Boulder Oaks it meant that the liter I had was plenty.

Did it like this the whole 200 miles. Carry the bare minimum, drink up at the water source in the middle of the day, make as much progress as possible toward the next source and dry camp. I never peed it all out, I never suffered and I never needed to carry more than about 2 liters (although sometimes I had 3 just in case.)

[mik matra]

@Skibbs “It makes sense but in reality all you are saying is make sure you are 100% hydrated at the beginning of your hike… I doubt this is groundbreaking.”

-not exactly. I am saying that you are slightly ‘overhydrated’ before leaving camp.  While the body is working through the excess water you are hiking. As I said I down 1L before leaving, it’s a safe amount and it takes my body a good 1-2hrs to work through the excess water by which point I am a good 4-8kms into my day. At that point I am fully hydrated and it will be a further 1hr (give or take) before I feel thirsty. By that stage I am 8-12kms into my day. Whereas if I was ‘just hydrated’ upon leaving I would be thirsty within an hour or so which is only roughly 4kms into my trip.

Make sense?

[mik matra]

@Piper

-I do the same to some extent (camelling up after the hike) as long as I don’t get into camp too late (later than dusk) meaning I would be up a few time during the night needing to pee.

“Carry the bare minimum, drink up at the water source in the middle of the day, make as much progress as possible toward the next source and dry camp. I never peed it all out, I never suffered ”
-This probably means you were re-hydrating your body rather than being slightly ‘overhydrated’

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

So, should we eat all of our meals for the day in the morning?  That way, the food would be in our stomachs well centered over our hips and not in our backpack.

[Mark]

I can clearly tell you are not refuting this strategy based on experience. Maybe try before you knock it hey :-)

1.It actually does. It goes straight into your blood stream. You also do not need to smash it down and you don’t exactly need 1L (be it more or less), the idea is to be very well hydrated so that you don’t need to reach for the water bottle in the first half of your walk. Experimentation of volume needed couple with dehydration levels will play a role here.

2.Never had that issue since I started doing this. 1L is not an issue by any stretch of the imagination!

3.A bunch of water in the gut is NOT carried on your back!!! You may still burn the same calories carrying that 1L (or whatever amount of water you just downed) in your body or on your body but since you do not carry it in your pack it then doesn’t weigh your pack down. That is the difference….and it counts. Again, I am talking of experiencing this.

As I said, try before knocking it hey

Mik,

It’s not really anything that’s new, i’m 47 years old and i’ve been drinking water for 47 of those years, so it’s not like i’m not experienced in drinking water, of course i’ve tried it.

1/ If you are already well hydrated then drinking a vast quantity of water quickly is absolutely pointless, your body will only absorb the fluids IF it feels it needs them.

So if you are already hydrated as you should be your idea is not only pontless, you’ll actually end up carrying more weight (until the several pee stops that’ll inevitably come) plus there is a chance you could be ill.

Even if you are dehydrated drinking vast quantities of fluid in a short amount of time is not the way you should be rehydrating.

 

2/ It may not have been an issue with you yet, but if you start a high level activity like running, cycling or in this case walking up hills then that stomach full of fluids really starts to play hell, even if you don’t get stomach cramps that bloated feeling is not pleasant.

 

3/ Sounds like it might be worth visiting a decent hiking store as you shouldn’t be carrying your rucksack weight on your back, most of the weight should be on your hips.

Either way if 1kg of water is the difference between your rucksack being comfortable or not something is wrong.

Personally after a days hiking it’s my legs that are sore not my back, so shifting 1kg from my back to my stomach offers absolutely zero advantage.

As for trying it, of course i’ve tried it, how do you think i’ve known about the stomach cramps or the bloated feeling when exercising.

If you are well hydrated the method you describe has zero benefits, not only does it offer no advantage what-so-ever, if taken to far it can even be dangerous.

You’d really have to be going some to get to the point of hyponatremia, but as your kidneys can only process around 500ml an hour why bother risking it?

[jscott]

I stay well hydrated and only carry water if there’s no good source over the next several miles. I drink up from source to source. And so I don’t carry the extra pounds of water in my pack if at all possible. I think that this is all the op was saying.

I remember watching a group of hikers take out their full camelbacks from their packs in camp. Turns out they had been hiking a trail that followed a river for the majority of their miles. They carried full camelbacks the whole time.

[Nick Gatel]

Where I hike the most (deserts), I often need to carry enough water to last a full day or two, so I am very conscious about the weight of water in my pack; and have been for the 40 years I have been wandering in deserts. Carrying 1-2 gallons of water (~ 4 to 8 liters) is not unusual for me, so every liter I don’t need to carry becomes even more significant.

People who have hiked with me are usually surprised with how little water I consume compared to them. This is partly due to some level of desert acclimation and of course my physiology —  point being that all of us are different.

How much water each of us needs each day is going to be determined by our physiology, ambient temperature, humidity, hours walked, how fast we walk, elevation gain, terrain, etc.

During the night each of us is going to lose about 1 liter of water via breathing, perspiration, and urinating during the night and/or in the morning. For me, I need to drink about 1/2 liter in the morning with breakfast. Just before taking off after breakfast I usually drink another 8 ounces or so of water. Over time (50+ years of backpacking) this is what works best for me. Consuming any more water than this results in a less than optimum morning of walking.

During the day, I drink and eat when my body says I need to — that is: if feel thirsty I drink; if I crave salty foods I eat that. This is what I have learned over time. I have learned how to “listen” to my body. I only drink when I feel thirsty and I rarely drink more than once an hour. Depending on the conditions of a hike, I may not need to drink any water over the course of 10 – 12 miles, or I may need to stop once an hour and drink 1/2 liter or more at a time. Hiking 20 Km per day is a lot different than hiking 40 Km a day, which is closer to what I do on most trips (terrain dependent) and the required water and food intake can become significantly different averaging 20+ miles per day, versus 10-12 miles per day, keeping in mind the conditions of the hike. No matter what kind of hike I am doing, I am not measuring or analyzing my water consumption — I am drinking when my body says it is time to drink.

For most people, a backpacking trip is going to put more stress on their body than what they normally do each day. But if we are in reasonably good shape and not hiking in extreme conditions, we can go a couple days without food and with very, very little water — but this cannot be sustained over time. IMO, it is best to learn what our body is telling us; to learn good water management that becomes 2nd nature and will carry us through short and long trips safely.

My main concern is to keep a balance of sodium level and hydration in my body. I have found “camel-ing” up will cause me to crave salty foods quicker and I will urinate more than normal too; and I won’t feel my best after drinking too much water. This being said, day in and day out I only drink and eat what my body needs, when it needs it — no less and no more. I have become dangerously dehydrated a few times, so proper water management is very important to me because I have experienced the effects of dehydration and one doesn’t just drink a bunch of water to recuperate. I have also tried to drink too much water in the morning and have suffered ill effects. There are times when I need to drink 1 or 2 liters during the first hour or two of a hike, but I don’t drink that all at once. I want to maximize the amount of water my body needs to intake, by neither drinking too little nor too much water.

On a 2 to 3 day trip in three seasons my total pack weight is usually going to be under 20 lbs, including an “extra” liter of water that I do not drink in the morning; the “extra” 2.2 lbs of water weight is insignificant as long as I have a good pack to match the weight of everything I am carrying. With a proper pack your body won’t notice the difference between 17.8 lbs and 20 lbs. It will notice drinking too much water.

Most people are carrying a couple pounds of gear they really don’t need, and that is what I would be worrying about; not trying to save 2.2 lbs in my pack by drinking more water in the morning than my body needs.

Our packs should weigh what they weigh — we carry the gear we need for a specific trip, and we carry the food and water we need each day. There is no reason to carry extra gear, food and water that is not needed; and conversely it is crazy not to carry what we need. Listen to your body… it does not want to be over-hydrated with a liter of water, and with a proper pack and gear it doesn’t mind an extra 2.2 lbs of water — even if its brain likes a spreadsheet or scale that says it just saved a couple pounds of water weight.

[mik matra]

@ Mark, I didn’t mean to be rude so I apologise if that’s the way it came across with my initial response.

Your latest post is taking my methodology waaaaay out of context. Your points 1 and 2 and then this – “You’d really have to be going some to get to the point of hyponatremia, but as your kidneys can only process around 500ml an hour why bother risking it?” – sounds like you are thinking that I am saying to be guzzling a whole lot of liquid. If you feel ill or bloated then that is too much and will take away from the experience of being out in the wild….and possibly be even dangerous. That is NOT the ideology by a longshot!! In hindsight I should have been more careful and said ‘camelling up’ and I may be even changing that now to ‘slightly camelling’ up because readers are concentrating on the volume rather than the process.

The process has been explained several times on this thread: The idea is that you are slightly ‘overhydrated’ before leaving camp.  While the body is working through the excess water you are hiking…gaining ground. ‘for me personally’ I down 1L before leaving, it’s a safe amount and it takes my body a good 1-2hrs to work through the excess water by which point I am a good 4-8kms into my day. ‘At that point’ I am fully hydrated and it will be a further 1hr (give or take) before I feel thirsty for the first time since leaving camp. By that stage I am 8-12kms into my day. Whereas if I was ‘just hydrated’ upon leaving I would be thirsty within an hour or so which is only roughly 4kms into my trip.

I also understand your explanation of carrying weight. I don’t particularly want to get bogged down in specifics but to explain it to you: Even though I did say ‘carrying it on your back’ it means that whatever you carry in your pack it will weigh down on your contact points. We are all striving for less and less weight to be carried and over the course of several days hiking if you start the day off in the morning with a little excess water in your stomach it’s actually doing something (the time to process and pee it out allows you to gain miles) and you will not feel the excess weight whereas lugging it around in a pack for later consumption makes a difference….why then are we concerned with fractions of ounces weight savings of gear???

Do not focus on my 1L, that is not the subject matter, the ideology is. And if you don’t feel like it is a good thing for you then that is fine too :-). I just thought of mentioning it here as everyone I have told this to has taken it on board and find it beneficial.

Ta for your time :-)

[mik matra]

@ Nick, Cool write up!! Good to hear you have worked out what you find works best for you :-)

I’d like to respond to (so readers get a clearer vision): “I have found “camel-ing” up will cause me to crave salty foods quicker and I will urinate more than normal too; and I won’t feel my best after drinking too much water.” and this…..
“I have also tried to drink too much water in the morning and have suffered ill effects.”
-the key word is ‘too much’ and you have used it in conjunction with the ideology of camel-ing up. My concern is that this may lead readers to think this is what they must do, to drink waaaay too much water and in turn feel ill/bloated. That is too much water!! That is not going to add enjoyment to your hike. So as readers do not get confused I’d like to clear it up for you as well: The idea is that you are slightly ‘overhydrated’ before leaving camp. While the body is working through the excess water you are hiking…gaining ground. ‘For me personally’ I down 1L before leaving, it’s a safe amount and it takes my body a good 1-2hrs to work through the excess water by which point I am a good 4-8kms into my day. ‘At that point’ I am fully hydrated and it will be a further 1hr (give or take) before I feel thirsty for the first time since leaving camp. By that stage I am 8-12kms into my day. Whereas if I was ‘just hydrated’ upon leaving I would be thirsty within an hour or so which is only roughly 4kms into my trip.

Do not focus on ‘vast water intake’ that is not the subject matter, being slightly ‘overhydrated’ is. And if you don’t feel like it is a good thing for you then that is fine too :-). I just thought of mentioning it here as everyone I have told this to has taken it on board and finds it beneficial.

[Clue M]

I think your point is to stay hydrated.   Thank you for sharing this technique.

 

[Clue M]

A mate of mine got me onto a ‘trend’ that is SO simple and has a massive weight saving knock on effect. Here it is:
***Drink a litre of water BEFORE leaving camp on your day’s walk****

i can’t understand why people focus on the amount ?

[mik matra]

@Clue M; “I think your point is to stay hydrated.   Thank you for sharing this technique.”
-no, not exactly. I have written exactly what I have meant on at least 3 occasions and I cannot be bothered to even cut and paste it anymore. Read some of the above comments and you’ll get a better picture :-)

“i can’t understand why people focus on the amount ?”
-I have ALSO said on a number of occasions that maybe I should not have said the 1L (which is a safe amount to down anyway) but used the words ‘camel-ing up’ or ‘slightly camel-ing up’……but then again it IS written several times, it’s up to readers to read the thread rather than me having to resay stuff just for entertainment purposes.

Cheers :-)

[Rodney Ackerman]

Back in the day,I stumbled across this same principle while playing basketball. If I hydrated before the game I found that I wasn’t craving water during it. It worked for me so I kept doing it. Seems like I drank at least a quart, perhaps more.

I had long since forgotten this. I am glad for the reminder (less all the chaff that followed).

[Skibbs]

Yes it makes sense, and if you read the rest of my post you would have seen me working through the logic of it….

I don’t think it is the most efficient way to stay hydrated and not worth any perceived weight savings, at least for me, as my body seems to purge that water through urine faster than it needs to replenish whatever I am losing hiking.  I suppose I could use a slow drip IV bag (joking), but for my body drinking small amounts of water frequently works just fine.

[jscott]

So I’m assuming that those who object to this notion of watering up are in fact carrying water as they hike. Perhaps it comes down to people liking to sip at their camelbacks as they go, or maybe pull out their bottles and have a few sips.

But this is BPL. Water is heavy. In the Sierra, or in the PNW, I’ve just found that I rarely need to carry water in the mountains, as I said earlier. Not carrying water, but simply drinking from water sources as I go, is the easiest and cheapest way to lose two pounds from my pack–assuming that’s the weight of a liter of water.

I mean, a camelback full of water weighs, what, five pounds? Maybe three? that’s a lot.

[Bob Moulder]

IMHO the chaffy parts of this thread are a reaction to the noobesque enthusiasm and fanfare over a UL concept that is already well known but simply doesn’t work for every person and every locale. From my first  readings about UL strategies I recall words to the effect “If you arrive at your next water source with water still in your bottle, you’ve done it wrong.” Time and experience tell me “Well, maybe, maybe not…”

Staying properly hydrated is something that most folks here figured out long ago. We know, individually, how much water we need, when to drink it and how to plan for water sources while backpacking. As has been noted, in some situations it would be moronic to carry 3 liters (or more!) of water all day and in others it would be deadly not to.

[monkey]

The idea is that you are slightly ‘overhydrated’ before leaving camp. … Do not focus on ‘vast water intake’ that is not the subject matter, being slightly ‘overhydrated’ is.

Yet the title of your thread and the opening posts promise “massive” “couple of pounds” weight savings. That’s why people have focused on the precise amount – to accomplish your feat a person is invited to gulp in at least a couple of pounds worth of water which their body doesn’t need at the time. This hardly qualifies as “slight”.

It seems that in trying to defend your original suggestion you yourself are moving away from it. Which to me again points to the need to re-consider: perhaps the true issue here is ensuring appropriate hydration before the hike, as many on this thread had commented?

 

‘For me personally’ I down 1L before leaving, it’s a safe amount and it takes my body a good 1-2hrs to work through the excess water by which point I am a good 4-8kms into my day. ‘At that point’ I am fully hydrated and it will be a further 1hr (give or take) before I feel thirsty for the first time since leaving camp. By that stage I am 8-12kms into my day. Whereas if I was ‘just hydrated’ upon leaving I would be thirsty within an hour or so which is only roughly 4kms into my trip.

How do you know you were ” just hydrated” upon leaving unless you measured your hydration status at the time? Perhaps in fact you were insufficiently hydrated and it is this that explains the subsequent thirst?

Some research has been done into this matter and the body takes approximately 45 minutes to process the water intake, not 2 hours. Links to study and report on the study. Which means that from the moment your body is fully hydrated, and you gulp your 1ltr of extra water, you have 45 minutes in which that extra amount is being processed. At best your actual weight savings would therefore boil down to the amount of water your body is going to lose during those 45 minutes of hiking, as anything over and above that amount will go to waste. I have a suspicion that ain’t going to be much, definitely not couple of pounds.

[Franco Darioli]

Mark,
if taking 1 kg off your pack and transfer it to your stomach makes a difference to you on the pressure points of your pack, maybe you have the wrong pack.
As a placebo effect it may sound wise/useful to transfer that load, however given that by doing that you do drink more than you need …well you drink more than you need.
I could start another thread suggesting folk eat all their meals in the morning (as someone already has pointed out ) and to further take away that weight pressure might as well wear extra clothing and as also already mentioned , put stuff in your pockets.
I am glad it works for you but it does not make any sense to me for a start because I would also feel bloated and uncomfortable drinking more than I do at breakfast.
Of course I could train myself to do so as I could train myself to drink half a dozen bottles of beer instead of one or two, but why would I do that ?

[mik matra]

@Monkey; “Yet the title of your thread and the opening posts promise “massive” “couple of pounds” weight savings. That’s why people have focused on the precise amount – to accomplish your feat a person would need to gulp in at least a couple of pounds worth of water which their body doesn’t need at the time. This hardly qualifies as “slight”.”
-Okay, I understand. The title reflected the fact that everyone I have personally introduced this method to had no quarms of downing the 1L. It’s only when I mentioned it here on BPL that I had some readers view of the quantity being too much. 1L of water is not dangerous by any of the research I have conducted. It was only after responders commenting that they themselves could not possibly drink 1L of water coupled with others using the words ‘camel-ing up’ that I thought the conversation was being driven away from the focus of the ideology. That is why I decided to use the words ‘slightly overhydrated’ because in reality that is what it is.

“It seems that in trying to defend your original suggestion you yourself are moving away from it”
-Not at all, just trying to clarify exactly what is meant with the ideology.

“How do you know you were ” just hydrated” upon leaving unless you measured your hydration status at the time? Perhaps in fact you were insufficiently hydrated and it is this that explains the subsequent thirst?

Some research has been done into this matter and the body takes approximately 45 minutes to process the water intake, not 2 hours. Links to <span style=”color: #0066cc;”>study</span> and <span style=”color: #0066cc;”>report on the study</span>. Which means that from the moment your body is fully hydrated, and you gulp your 1ltr of extra water, you have 45 minutes in which that extra amount is being processed. At best your actual weight savings would therefore boil down to the amount of water your body is going to lose during those 45 minutes of hiking, as anything over and above that amount will go to waste. I have a suspicion that ain’t going to be much, definitely not couple of pounds.”
-You are getting bogged down with the nitty gritty and the scientific specifics and I honestly could not care to carefully answer every part of it. I have no scientific data, nor test results and I could not care less for them. I simply gave my and the experiences of those who have tried it…..not one negative feedback (yet), no one ill, no emergency evacuations and no deaths. And again the main focus is to be NOT thirsty for hours after setting off in the morning and I my water planning now has shifted focus to much later in my hike allowing me not to have to carry much water in my pack at all compared to before.

As I have said to others. Don’t try it if you don’t want to, it’s no detriment to me :-). But if you do try it, you just might learn what is actually meant and be pleasantly surprised. Or not. Again, no skin off my nose.

Have a great day

[mik matra]

@ Franco: “if taking 1 kg off your pack and transfer it to your stomach makes a difference to you on the pressure points of your pack, maybe you have the wrong pack.”
-The comments regarding weight on the pressure points carrying a pack was to remind readers that we are all striving for lower weights carried on our backs. No one feels a few ounces difference in their packs but even if it’s just psychological the saving of a couple pounds in water weight coupled with the health benefits of starting the day being slightly overhydrated does make a difference. Maybe try it :-)

“As a placebo effect it may sound wise/useful to transfer that load, however given that by doing that you do drink more than you need …well you drink more than you need.”
-It doesn’t seem like you are grasping the concept. Drinking extra water in the morning has health benefits too. Don’t just take it from me check on line and read other responders responses about it.

“I am glad it works for you but it does not make any sense to me for a start because I would also feel bloated and uncomfortable drinking more than I do at breakfast.”
-If it makes no sense to you then forget it, it’s all cool :-), no need to keep responding and refuting without actually trying it a couple times. It’s like me saying “Carrot cake doesn’t taste nice but I have never tried it”. You using the ‘bloated’ and uncomfortable’ words means you are missing the point. But anyway, each to their own.

“Of course I could train myself to do so as I could train myself to drink half a dozen bottles of beer instead of one or two, but why would I do that ?”
-I don’t even know why you wrote this but…..cool :-).

[Author]

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