Driving off-road into remote areas: how to equip the car?

[John G]

+1 on a come along. Get the model that pulls the most weight. The car is heavy – especially going up hill to get it out of the ditch, or unstuck when it’s in a stream.  A longer distance one is handy, because you don’t have to reposition it as many times when the car only made it part way across the stream.

I would NOT get a come along that uses rope.  Nor would I use a rope between the come along anywhere between the car and tree/rock you are using to pull against.  The boating world has safety guidelines for what diameter rope you need to safely tow a broken down boat back to shore with another boat. Ropes stretch and break all of the sudden.  And when they break, they are like an elastic band. The end comes whipping back (typically at super sonic velocities).  If the end hits you, you’ll definitely have a VERY deep gash, and may have an amputation depending on where it hits you. It’s much better to hook a come along to a chain.  Cable is often used on eclectic winches, but has a minature version of the rope problem.  Putting 20′ of chain between you and a cable should ensure your safety though.

A 20-30 foot chain with a hook on each end is also really handy to have if you manage to roll the car onto its side in a ditch and need to roll it right side up with the come along.

+ 1 on a 36″ bow saw rather than an axe.  It’s safer – and way faster.  Especially for people who didn’t grow up using an axe.  I did – and I’m good at at — and a saw is 25% still faster.  For a non-axe user, a saw is 1000 (5000?) times faster.

But – a saw will often (usually?) get wedged when the big branch or trunk you are sawing through decides to bend when you are about half way through the cut.

The solution is to bring a splitting wedge and a 5 lb hammer.  You saw through about 1/3 of the way, then pound the wedge into the crack to keep it open.

 

[David Thomas]

Roger,

One year at college my room mate and I majored in Monday-Wednesday-Friday specifically so we could go to the Sierra Nevada mountains on Tuesdays and Thursdays and learned to Alpine ski.  That would often involved 10 to 30 miles of driving each way on paved interstate highway with chains on.  Early on, I read in the manufacturer’s instructions that every single link the chains were loose caused 30-40% more wear and that has been my experience.  I work hard to get the chains as tight as possible and then use the big rubber bands secured to the side chains to snug it up even more.  And not as a pentagon.  Start with a pentagon, but then take one clip and stretch it to the OTHER side of the tire.  Do that with one more link and you end up with a irregular 5-pointed star and that rubber band is MUCH tighter and the angle of force is much more effective at tensioning the side chains.  Then sometimes I’ll put a second rubber band on each tire chain.

Yeah, sure driving slowly helps.  But we’d often be driving 40 mph past people doing half that and hear their chains far more than our own.

And, agreed, the jacks are only to get your tire up out of a hole.  Then you need to chock the hole full of rocks, dry dirt, large boards, etc.  But better yet, usually, is to dig a ramp down to the tire’s depth on the side you plan to drive out the hole.

“so those chains were embedded”

You wouldn’t worry about parking on a piece of #4 (1/2″) rebar under your tire tread all night, right?  Or on a fist-sized rock?

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Hee, see This is not quite off-road but very close.  I’m driving my Prius v (wagon) into a northern Nevada (Jarbige Wilderness Area) trailhead that last year I barely got in and out. I did take tire (OK Roger,”tyre”)  chains just in case it got muddy. Luckily it stayed dry and I managed to get in and out of this horribly rutted road with minimal underbody dragging. I only saw ATVs and high-clearance pickups  there. Some asked me how I got my Prius v in there. I said, “The same way porcupines and hedgehogs make love, carefully”.

Got to do it agin this year if I want a chance at a buck mule deer or cow/calf elk. But this time I’ve put a message on my SPOT satellite beacon for the “HELP” button that says “Call AAA and have them bring a flatbed down to the trailhead to haul my ass out”. hopefully wifey will check her e-mail twice daily. Nothing like planning ahead…

[Roger Caffin]

Hi David

You wouldn’t worry about parking on a piece of #4 (1/2″) rebar under your tire tread all night, right?  Or on a fist-sized rock?
Well yeah, I would worry. I would not do that.

We only put the chains on when we hit the mud or snow. We never drive on a paved surface with chains (unless it is covered in ice, which does not really count). And the chains come back off as soon as we are clear. But remember: I am driving a short-wheel-base 4WD Toyota Landcruiser with M&S tyres – possibly in Lo-Ratio.

As for getting the local equivalent of AAA to haul me out – never. I am not sure they would go where we go anyhow. Perhaps I should admit that there is an 8-ton electric winch on the front of the car, and I carry mud & snow anchors for it as well. And yes, we do know how to use it after all these years :-)

Cheers

 

[Rick M]

The Preppers have come out their closets in this thread. Surprised no one has mentioned the need for the emergency wooden stakes, crucifixes, and wreaths of garlic. :-)

[Ralph Burgess]

“The same way porcupines and hedgehogs make love, carefully”

Is that because porcupines are 20 times larger than hedgehogs?

[IVO K]

@ Ralph:

I am not qualified to contribute to the subject, but have a question:

Ralph, what was the thought process that made you choose the 24″ Fiskar axe over its 28″ sister?

[Ralph Burgess]

I have zero expertise on the matter, but my thought process was:

1. Per the Fiskar blurb, the shorter one appears to have a head designed for lateral cutting, whereas the longer one has a head optimized for splitting (I have no idea if the difference is significant).

2. With my lack of skills, I felt that wielding a slightly shorter axe for a larger number of cuts might be safer, and I can live with it being a little slower.

3.  I also bought a 36″ saw, which (as a more knowledgable poster John G has subsequently confirmed) will probably be the tool of choice in any case where I have a lot to cut through.   I am adding the suggested splitting wedge to my shoopping list, I already carry a toolkit with a hammer.

ETA:
With all of these things, I’m quite seriously weighing my chances of maiming myself with one of these tools, and balancing that risk against a 50-mile hike out!

 

[Jake J]

A hi-lift jack is a nice tool, but one that can bite you if you dont use it properly. The nice thing about it is that it can be rigged to use as a hand winch in a pinch.

If you are looking at getting a come along, i would search around and see if you can find a griphoist trifor on craigslist or similar. They are a hand winch that uses a steel cable, often they are used for rigging and lifting in construction, but they are also popular in the off-road community for those wanting to be able to winch themselves out of a tricky spot without having the complications of having an electric winch mounted on the bumper.

I went out to an area called Coyote Flat,s which is a large plateau that sits at about 10K feet smack in between the Owens Valley and South Lake / Lake Sabrina twice this summer. Great area with a lot of forest roads that literally get you right up to the edge of the wilderness. In this pic my truck is parked right next to a cliff, with Green Lake below and the Inconsolable Range directly behind:

Made for a great jumping off point to bag Cloudripper and Vagabond Peak. Cuts about 3 miles each way off the hike if you start from the trailhead near south lake.

My truck is a 97 Land Rover Discovery and despite LR’s atrocious reliability reputation, it’s never left me stranded. Anything that has happened while off the beaten track I have been able to remedy and drive out under my own power. Keeping up on preventative maintenance is key. Deferred maintenance will bite you in the ass at the most inopportune moment. I can pretty much take my truck wherever I point it. It’s lifted about 3″, with front and rear air locking differentials, factory center locking diff, 32″ tires, 8,000lb winch, upgraded HD steering, with skid plates front and rear. I daily drive my truck, but I mainly got it to take me out to the middle of nowhere. Sierra Pinstriping is a real issue out here on the west coast. If you care about your trucks paint at all, make sure to keep it well waxed. That will help lessen pinstriping. Here’s a pic of some pinstriping, on the upper bit. The dust from being out in the desert makes it look worse than it is, but still.

The rock rash on the top of the wheel arch was from going through a spot called “the squeeze” on Pinon Mountain Road in Anza Borrego State park. It’s definitely a squeeze.

I would also recommend getting a service manual for your truck and a basic set of tools. A little knowledge of your truck can go a long way. Since you have a Toyota, the best model specific online community on the web for that make is IH8MUD

Another thing to look out for when planning to head out off the beaten track is the MVUM. It’s a map or set of maps published by each National Forest that will list all of the trails and roads that are open to vehicles. If it’s not on the MVUM it’s out of bounds. The USFS topo quads will show all of the roads in the area, but a lot of times the roads can be closed for whatever reason and the quads in conjunction with the MVUM will show where it’s legal to be and where it’s not.

 

[John G]

Per the Fiskar blurb, the shorter one appears to have a head designed for lateral cutting, whereas the longer one has a head optimized for splitting (I have no idea if the difference is significant).
2. With my lack of skills, I felt that wielding a slightly shorter axe for a larger number of cuts might be safer, and I can live with it being a little slower.

****************

The difference in head shape for a felling ax and splitting axe is very significant.  Basically, the splitting axe has a wide head so it more or less “wedges” the log apart when stuck into the log from the narrow end.  This splitting action only works along the grain, and as long as you can hit the narrow end of the log – you can hit it anywhere and the wedge shaped head will generally cause the log to split.

A felling axe has a narrow head and is for chopping down trees, or chopping a fallen tree into sections. The narrow head “slices” a sliver of the trunk off each time you chop down into the wedge shaped hole you are making in the side of the tree trunk.   In order for this to work, you have to be able to hit the side of the wedge accurately.  Otherwise, you don’t take off a slice and deepen/widen the hole – you just get a bunch of shallow cuts and a chewed up looking tree with no big hole in it.

In general, a splitting axe is too wide to slice piece off the sides of the wedge you make when trying to chop through a fallen tree from the side.  (The wide sides cause it to deflect).

Similarly, a felling axe will generally not split wood nearly as well as a splitting axe.  It tends to go in deep, but get stuck in the middle.  On straight grain wood, a felling axe splits fine.  On wood that has wavy grain / lots of knots – a felling axe sucks at splitting.  You spend more time freeing up the stuck axe than actually chopping with it.

Also, a 24″ axe is often called a “boys” axe or a “forest” axe (because it is easier to use in dense forest where your overhead swing is obstructed by branches.

BUT – shorter axes as generally MORE dangerous.  Here’s why:

A novice axe user will have some blows “glance off” (richochet) because the angle of their swing was off, or the axe was getting dull and they didn’t notice (or didn’t stop to sharpen it). If the axe glances off the tree it could end up hitting you in the shin.  If you aim at the downed tree turnk, but accidentally straighten at the waist slightly during the swing, you may completely miss the target, and hit your foot instead.

A longer axe won’t hit your foot because the handle has a longer reach – which causes it to hit the ground 8-12″ in front of your foot.  On a blow to that glances off the tree, a longer axe is farther away from your shin, which gives you more time to react.  And since the chopping motion is generally partially downward for almost all axe stokes, the glancing blows on a longer axe are more likely to run into the ground before getting back to your shin.  If you only have a 24″ axe and want to be safer, just kneel down when chopping.  That way – if you miss, then the axe will hit the ground before it hits you.

To sharpen an axe, you just use a file with a course and fine side.  A sharp axe sinks in easily. A dull axe glances off unless your stoke angle is pretty close to perfect.

Ps: Despite the warnings above, an axe isn’t that dangerous (especially compared to a chainsaw).  But it is something that you need some practice to develop the skill needed to use it effectively.  If you are willing to put in 8 hours of practice over a few weekends, an axe becomes a very useful tool.  If you just want something to have for “just in case” emergencies – then a saw is better.

 

[Ralph Burgess]

Thanks for taking the time to explain all that John, very helpful.

So, I’ve realized now that there is also a 28-inch Fiskars “chopping” axe – which I assume means the same thing as a felling axe.    It sounds like this is a better choice than the 24-inch.

Or were you advising something longer still?

 

[IVO K]

The 28″ Fiskar “chopping” = “felling” axe is the one I alluded to.

I may not have experience with off-road vehicles, but do have a considerable experience with all sorts of axes, and I asked the question about the 24″ axe choice since it is my opinion too that the larger (longer) ones are safer, especially in the hands of a less experienced user. Fully share John G’s view on this.

My aim was to try to enhance the discussion on that aspect, and I’m happy with the success. I think a 28″ to 36″ axe is a pretty good choice, the 28″ requiring a bit more experience, but better in brush than the 36″ (downed trees are seldom branch-less). I thought the 24″ length unsafe and not as productive.

[Paul McLaughlin]

It’s been sort of mentioned here but I want to emphasize it – bring a file and/or a sharpening stone for the axe. So easy to hit rocks in the course of chopping a downed tree – so hard to chop with a dull axe – so easy to sharpen it again if you have something to sharpen with.

[Ian]

“I have a big portable battery unit with a small compressor.”

I’d suggest having a backup plan.  I used to carry one in my work vehicle and kept it charged.  When it came time to actually use it, it failed to jump start the vehicle.

A couple things to add to the already great suggestions:

Tire repair kit is cheap insurance.  I know people who have have driven on their plugs for well over a year.

When it comes to AT tires, I find the Bridgestone Dueler Revos hard to beat both on and off road; I’ve owned several sets over the years.  They have an aggressive tread but they won’t make you deaf when driving on pavement and I didn’t notice a hit on my fuel economy compared to my current tires, Toyo Wild Country ATs which have great traction off road but are noisy on road and I took a 1-2 mpg hit on my fuel economy.

Also, I drive a half ton truck but go overkill with 10 ply E rated tires and did so on my old Nissan Pathfinder and other 4x4s in the past.  Some will likely disagree but for me, I really don’t notice a decrease in the comfort of my ride and with the Bridgestone Dueler Revos, no loss of fuel economy.  Besides being a thicker tire, you’ll get more tread depth.  The only downside I’ve found is that they are a little more expensive up front but they also last longer.  YMM literally V.

Really give some thought about which air compressor you choose to bring.  One that plugs into your cigarette lighter may be fine to add a couple PSI to a tire, but in my experience, they tend to overheat quickly so filling a tire from flat (eg multiple damaged tires) may be a multi hour experience.  Read the reviews at Amazon but I’d look for one that clips directly to your battery and has enough reach for all four tires.  On a 4 Runner, that should be easy to find.

Chainsaw is a valuable tool and you needn’t break the bank.  Stihl is likely the gold standard but I have a Craftsman branded Poulan chainsaw that has been serving me well for well over 15 years now.  It may go a few years without being used but it always fires right up.

Plus you can use it when you have a dead battery

 

[John G]

Thanks for taking the time to explain all that John, very helpful.

So, I’ve realized now that there is also a 28-inch Fiskars “chopping” axe – which I assume means the same thing as a felling axe. It sounds like this is a better choice than the 24-inch.

Or were you advising something longer still?

 

The length of axe that will be as safe as possible, is easy to figure out in person. Just hold it in your normal cutting stance as if you just completed a downward chop.  If the cutting edge touches the ground 8-12″ in front of your front toes – it’s a safe length for you.  The typically this length is 35-36″.

Personally, I wouldn’t buy a Fiskars axe. The head design is poor and the head weight is way to little.

For efficient chopping a novice axe user typically does best with a “standard” weight head (4-4.5 pounds).  Much lighter than that will chop really really slow and tire you out before you make much headway on chopping through a tree.  Much heavier than that is too hard to control and aim for someone who doesn’t use an axe for a few hours a week.

Here’s some info about what to look for in a good head design:

The cutting edge chops a lot better with some curvature.  You could file the Fiskars axe into a curve – but why bother ?

Also the cheeks of the face should have a slightly convex (appleseed like) profile that transitions to a slight hollow about 1.5-2″ back the cutting edge. The Fiskars cheek (side of the blade) is a flat plane. That prevents the axe from automatically  making the slice of the tree curl away so the axe can continue to go deeper during the stroke.

Also, the way the Fiskars handle sticks out farther than the cheeks of the axe is a problem – if you want to cut deeper than that because those “wings” will cause serious deflection.

An axe also needs to be hardened well. Too soft, and you have to sharpen it with your file every 5 minutes, or after hitting a knot. Too hard and the edge chips when you hit a knot.

The Collins axe company makes decent heads, and are sold in many hardware stores. The axes are relatively inexpensive ($35-40) so the sharpening is often uneven but the head shape and hardening are top notch.  Very occaisionally, the head is offset a little to one side of the eye.  This is something that happens when forged and heat treated metal cools.  If the axe was more expensive, the quality assurance dept would have rejected that one. The Appleseed shape on Collins axes is often a little thick – since they don’t know whether it will be used for cutting hardwood or softwood (and since some people may want to split firewood with it). For cutting hardwood, you can thin down the profile a bit with a file in about 20 minutes.  The biggest problem with the Collins axes is that the handles often have grain that doesn’t run lengthwise down the handle. If the growth rings are parrelel to the hole where the handle goes into the head, that’s one that will splinter or break when you swing, miss, and hit the handle on the log. In summary, Collins makes great axes for $35-40 – but you have to pick through 5 of them to find one with a handle where the grain is all running within 60 degrees of lengthwise.

If you want to spend double, and get an axe where all of the above has been taken care of by the company, and the head is even a little bit better – then get a Husqvarna axe. You won’t find anything better until you get into the Wetterlings and other boutique axes in the $200+ price range.

ANY axe head that was made before the 1970s will be a good one.  Often better than the $200 boutique axes.  Sometimes you can get one for $5 at a garage sale, and replace the handle for $20.  Just avoid any heads where a previous owner used a power grinder to sharpen the edge so much at one time that they may have heated the edge up enough to remove the temper from the metal. If the axe has 1″ long rutted grind marks that are slightly concave like the surface of a grinding wheel, figure it’s not worth your time.

ps: Wooden handles don’t break as long as the grain runs lengthwise (ish).  They are also less flexy so you can aim better.  The fiberglass handle guys just have an advertising slogan that works better (i.e.: guarenteed never to break).  I have a wooden handled axe my grandfather, great uncles, father, uncles, myself, and son have used. Nobody was extra careful with it – and the handle is still fine.  I also have a few more modern wooden handled axes that I lend to Boy Scouts doing their pioneering and trail maintenance projects. None ever get broken, and the Scouts are the opposite of careful.

[Roger Caffin]

Chainsaw charging – yeah, OK in theory. It might work for a small petrol-engine car. But if you have a diesel engine with a starter which pulls 400 Amps at start, you might be sitting there for a LONG time. Painful.

Jumper leads on a diesel for starting? Forget it. There is too much resistance in the jumper leads – and I don’t care how big they are. Been there, tried that. What does work is to recharge the flat battery from the battery of another car using those jumper leads while running the engine on the second car for about 10 – 15 minutes. Yes, it can take that long. Been there and done that too.

Cheers

 

[Nick Smolinske]

In regards to the axe v. saw v. chainsaw question, I have one of these pocket chainsaws and I’ve found it to work very well.  I’ve used it a couple times – once to cut some 4 inch logs while car camping for a fire (took just a couple minutes a log) and once to help some folks who were stuck after an 8-inch tree fell across a road.  The 8-inch tree took about 10 minutes to cut through (and it was dead, not green wood).  I haven’t had to sharpen it but presumably you could get it sharpened anywhere that sharpens chainsaw chains.

The caveat is that it works best with two people (used like a crosscut saw).  But it also fits in my spare tire compartment!  Pretty sweet.  It’s light enough that I would even consider taking it backpacking if I wanted to do some trail maintenance.

[Nick Smolinske]

Also, here’s an interesting method of pulling your car out of trouble.  Don’t be thrown off by the horrendous clickbait title, I think that was a joke.  This is one I have *not* tried.

[Ralph Burgess]

Cool!   I can tell you one thing, though, I will not be the guy kneeling down just behind the wheel with my hand on the webbing in the direction the car is about to jump.

[Author]

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