Down Quilts

I prefer a quilt.  I don’t like feeling confined in a bag, and I tended to get tangled as I tossed from side to side during my sleep.  I also like the flexibility a quilt offers.  I have used them down to 5 degrees, and they work FOR ME.  For warmer temps, I love my EE 40 degree synthetic quilt.  For winter my Katabatic Sawatch is my favorite.  In between, I tend to go with a Katabatic Flex 22.

I don’t use the pad attachments and still find that I don’t have problems with drafts, although using wide quilts helps mitigate this issue (and mine are all wide).

I add a beanie and neck gaiter to my system when it’s really cold.

Just my $.02 but you should probably google around and read countless blog posts about this as well as the “why use a quilt” posts at all of the quilt manufacturer’s websites.

In short, most people seem to prefer quilts of bags because of the lower weight and because they are less confining. Some people prefer bags, particularly when it’s well below freezing.

I like a sewn footbox (warmer, lighter) and I can pull my foot out if it’s too warm.

I don’t bother with any pad attachment straps and have not problems with cold air. YMMV on that one.

If you have more specific questions I’m sure we can answer them.

Agreed – weight saving, less confining, also more flexible to spread it out on warmer nights or even stick a foot out if you’re too hot, or cinch it in closer on colder night. Also can use it more like a blanket when sitting around camp.

The way I like to describe the difference is that you sleep *in* a sleeping bag but you sleep *under* a quilt. It’s closer to the experience of sleeping in a bed at home — room to move around without the bag coming with you and getting tangled up in it.

Some people don’t like the feel of lying directly on the pad, which for me is only an issue on really warm nights where I will be in short underwear and possibly topless, and even then it’s a very minor issue and easily fixed by stretching an old t-shirt over the pad.

If you’re a really cold sleeper then you might prefer a bag because not all the insulation on the bottom gets compressed, for example if you sleep on your side and bend your knees then the insulation directly under your legs is compressed but the nook behind your knees still has loft.

I changed to a quilt after I found myself using my WM Megalight unzipped as a quilt probably 80% of the time.  If you are not sure about making the switch, try using your bag as a quilt on a couple of trips to get a feel for it.

I made my own quilt using Pertex Quantum for the top, Momentum for the liner and a bit more than 9 oz of 900 fp down.  Looking at comparable retail/cottage made specs, I thought that, for the dimensions (length, width, and baffle height), that should equate to 30 deg.  Footbox is open with a draw cord and 12″ of velcro to close it up.  I’m average build (6ft, 190 lbs and medium shoulder width…if that’s average) and, while I don’t recall off the top of my head what the dimensions were, I feel that it is too narrow and short.  It should be wide enough that it “drapes” over you without compressing any of the down.  And wide enough that it can be tucked or held in place by straps, fasteners or whatever if need be.  Same thing for length.  You should be able to fully stretch out with the the top end up over the shoulders and around you neck without stretching the quilt and compressing any down.

I’ll measure the quilt tonight.  I too have primarily used it in the southern Appalachians during spring and certainly part of my problem has been the un-insulated Exped pad under me.  Fixed that but long story short, it’s too narrow, too short and I wish I had gone with a sewn, closed footbox.  I also ran all of the baffles width-wise.  I flop around all night and the down wants to settle towards either side of the quilt.  Maybe my baffles are too tall for the fill and it’s not lofting sufficiently but I think running the baffles length-wise down to just above the footbox would help to prevent the down from shifting.  Hope that helps.

I prefer quilts above 20F. From 32-20f it doesn’t make much difference weight wise. You need a good pad(s) and a good hat/hood to offset the extra heat loss due to drafts.

So, I measured my quilt this evening.  Laid out flat, its 48″ at the shoulders and 74″ long.  If comparing to an EE Revelation Reg/Reg, I’m about 6″ too narrow and 4″ too short.  However, they recommend adding 4-5″ to the girth for “active” sleepers, which I would consider myself.  So, mine is at least 10″ too narrow!!!  Live and learn.

I love the thing when its above 40 (when I’ll typically open the footbox and use it like a blanket) but I’ll definitely go with something wider and longer next time around, as well as adding a bit more fill.

I think if I had gone with these dimensions and 5 or 6 oz more fill (as well as using the new XTherm pad), I should be good below 30.  I had the existing quilt down to 28 deg and nearly froze my butt off (that was with the un-insulated pad, a Montbell Thermawrap and every stitch of other clothing I had).

So, should you choose to go the quilt route I would just recommend you size it properly according to your sleep style, use an appropriate pad and as James noted, have proper head coverage.  The 20 deg EE Revelation in Reg/Wide looks like it would come in around 1.5 lbs in 10D with 950 fp. 7D would likely only save a couple ounces.  Mine came out to just under 1 lb but again, it’s not adequate for the conditions your looking at.

Yes, width and length are important for determining real world sleeping ability. This is one of the things that the ISO standard really doesn’t cover.

Width: Theoretically, you can remove half the width of a bag when using a quilt. So, a generous 66″ width bag becomes a 33″ quilt. Give it 8″ on a side for draping around you, and, you find 49″ is about the minimum width to use. As Bret found out, this is really inadequate for colder temps but works fine in >32F weather provided you have enough insulation, of course. Good practice, over the time quilts have been in use, shows a 52-55″ width to be better in use. People do not sleep in one position all night. They roll, lift their knees, sleep on their sides, etc. (A very brief overview: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/01/28/3861788.htm) I use and recommend a wide (57-58″) width. No where near the theoretical savings over a bag. But, even at 58″ a significant savings over the 66″ of a mummy.

Length: Hoods were designed to keep your head warm. Your head and torso are the most important parts of your body to protect from a biological standpoint. Even while allowing you to freeze your fingers, toes,arms, and legs, your body will still pump warming blood to your brain and torso. You have a couple options here. A longer quilt will let you duck your head under insulation (while still maintaining a breathing hole) in cold weather. This doesn’t really effect the temp rating because they do not rate bags/quilts in this configuration, but you can do away with the extra wool hat…the weight is similar (~2oz for a “long” quilt option, ~2oz for a wool sleeping hat.) You will find that you can also put a water bottle/fuel canister/batteries/etc in the foot box. In warm temps, I still need to carry the extra 2oz. A trade off between extra warmth/versatility at 20F and UL weights at 40F.

OK, So, the weights are maybe 20% less (width/length) for a quilt at 20F so far, but we haven’t talked about pads.

Pads: With a 20F bag, you can get away with a R4 or a little less. An Xlite will work on cleared forest duff, but not on rock/ice. For a quilt, you need every bit of an R4 and more at 20F under the same conditions. (This is for me, some people can tolerate more or less so it isn’t an exact Rvalue, but it shows the major difference.) Some part of your body will be on the pad with NO insulation. Even compressed down has more insulating value than none. And the drafts from moving will cool a quilt user quicker than a bag user. So, generally speaking, a bag will be warmer, but you pay in weight. A quilt user needs a warmer pad, pretty much offsetting any weight advantage of a quilt at it’s limits.

How did we go from a 20F Bag vs a 20F quilt to sleeping systems? Well, using quilts requires it. At 40F with a 20F bag, you can just lay down on dry forest duff and be comfortable. A quilt ALWAYS requires more Rvalue from a pad because there is no insulation below you, not even a piece of cloth. This is usually overlooked, because most quilt manufacturers don’t like to say their quilts really don’t save much weight, and, backpackers always carry a pad, anyway. At 20F, backpackers usually carry about an R4 pad, something you can survive with a quilt, even if you aren’t real comfortable.

There are other factors for sleeping that can effect your tolerance for low temps. Roof to reflect IR, small sleeping area in a tent, with or without a fire within 10′ of your sleeping area, etc. Wind speed, around you, and so on.  For example a hammock sleeper needs a bottom and top quilt, not just a top quilt at 20F. All of these items can change your temperature tolerance.

Practically, quilts save weight (true,) but it is only about 15% over a bag sleeping system. At around a 20F temperature, the effectiveness of a quilt vs bag kind of balance out due to needing a heavier pad, heavier hat and heavier balaclava.

My preference for quilts has very little to do with weight savings, rather my choice has to do with comfort.  James very expertly explained the trade-offs, and yes there are some small weight savings with a quilt.   As a side sleeper, I sleep much more comfortably under a quilt than when ensconced in a bag and for that comfort I am willing to accept the trade-offs and take mitigating action…below 25 deg, I wear more clothes to bed using a quilt than when in a bag.

I will once again quote Glen Van Peski: “My personal feeling is that if I’m not wearing every piece of clothing I have at night, the coldest part of the day, then I brought too much clothing”.

Sure, that’s taking a concept all the way to the very edge, but I agree with Glen…about 85%  :)

Thanks for all the great responses. Kind of leaning toward a bag over a quilt due to handling colder temps. and having a hood. I did find a Western Mountaineering bag at 1lb 13 ounces rated at 25 degrees that is semi-rectangular, lots of room. Anyone have experience with the Western Mountaineering “Terralite”?

The MontBell DownHugger bags use an innovative cut to offer greater freedom of movement than a regular mummy. If you tend towards a bag, you might want to check them out. Haven’t used one myself, but they seem to have many enthusiastic users.

Another alternative is to use a bag/quilt hybrid, as offered by Feathered Friends, Zpacks, Enlightened and others. They are basically hoodless bags that unzip into serviceable quilts.

Get both!  I switched to quilts for everything but winter awhile back.   Love my EE quilts.  So much less confining and modular.   For colder temps (in the mid 20’s) I like to eliminate drafts with a bag.   For really cold temps I just stick a bag inside my quilt.   I was in -15 below with a 20 degree quilt and a 20 degree bag and was toasty.  FYI – I have found the 20′ quilt good for all 3 seasons.   They are so easy to regulate heat.   I realize the 2 bag thing is outside the ultralight model, but it works for me.  I use a sled a ton in the winter also, so weight doesn’t matter as much.   It really depends on what you like.   I would never go back to a bag for anything about 25 degrees.

How I wish I had done more research before making my quilt!  This has been very informative.  My wife and I use a 20 deg EE Accomplice paired with an Exped Duo and, granted we have the advantage of shared body warmth, but I knew right away where I messed up on mine.  We’ve used it into the low 30’s and I find it to be too warm at times.  As others have noted though, a quilt makes it so much easier to vent off excess heat.