“Down like” Synthetics MYOG Sleeping bag

That is Thinsulate insulation right?

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/90847/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/rab-cirrus-3m-thinsulate-fl600/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/thinsulate-for-an-overbag/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/ive-fallen-down-the-rabbit-hole-of-synthetic-insulation/

I thought I remembered a recent thread where members dove pretty deep into the differences between the synthetic insulations but I can’t find it. Thinsulate is meant to be compressed in gloves and boots, etc.

In the second thread I linked I read something about fill power not necessarily being proportional to warmth. Also read a lot about APEX and Climasheild quilts. Try searching for synthetic quilts. I use google and duckduckgo with the suffix ‘site:backpackinglight.com’ in order to search this forum. Also old threads can still be accessed by manually entering the thread id # into the new url format; ex https://backpackinglight.com/forums/?forum_thread_id=13855 is still available at  https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/13855/  Welcome to the forum, I’m excited to see the myog sleeping bag!

A lot of people swear by Apex

I’ve used it and it works pretty good

It weighs twice as much as down for the same warmth

It tolerates getting wet much better than down

Thanks for the links and the tip Jacob, really useful was trying to access an old thread a couple of days back and couldn’t figure it out.

Regarding thinsulate used for gloves and & boots it’s a different product, despite the confusing branding the ‘featherless’ stuff is a loose fill type that essentially mimics down, you even buy it in compressed bags to blow it into clothing see here

Despite the calculations on thread 2 I’ve somehow managed to convince myself it’s warmer than primaloft gold, as I’ve two equivalent weight jackets one with the FL600 and the other with primaloft gold and the FL600 is anecdotally much warmer. (could also be outer fabrics and breath-ability? )

My only worry is that the manufacturer doesn’t recommend filling channels of 3 x 12” with this stuff, not sure why but I’m going to enquire, particularly since I saw a video of them at a tech show shilling that this is a great material for sleeping bags yet nobody has manufactured a sleeping bag with this synthetic fill yet.

Once I get it might do some comprehensive tests and report back, will update this thread if & when.

@Jerry, yeah I’ve had a climashield apex quilt good but as you said, weight:warmth just isn’t comparable to down. I’m convinced that there must be some better synthetic materials out there to make sleeping bags with but no-one’s been mad enough / thrown the money at an R&D team to try it yet

yeah, it seems like it ought to be possible to make a synthetic that’s as good as down

Incase anybody was curious as to what this mystery insulation looked like

cool device for filling, that could be used for down

I noticed she didn’t weigh it to make sure each baffle has the correct amount : )

There’s a small scale at the top of the screen, used at the very start of the video.

One…down, side to this stuff, is if your shell tears, you’re leaking fluffy plastic in to the environment, not biodegradable feathers.

Hi Edward,

A friend had concerns like your partner’s, and needed a very light sleeping bag for a long hike in Europe.  We found that some of the bag makers use “no kill” down; that is, the geese are plucked but not harmed, as I understand it.  She settled on a Western Mountaineering bag that filled the bill.

Before “featherless” down, 3M came out with a product called Thinsulate Lite Loft that had more loft for weight than Primaloft or Climashield products, although it was a bat type insulation.  Was going to make it into a bag with very light  .67 oz fabric and stretch mesh from lingerie for the baffles.  But the consensus on BPL was that although it might be as good as down when new, repeated compression in stuff sacks would reduce the loft, a characteristic of synthetic fills.  So put the project on hold.

Watched a video to learn more about the featherless 3M insulation:  https://vimeo.com/249408987
Saw that it is a loose material, like down, and goes into jackets with compartments around 3″ in width.  It also does not absorb water.  But no word on the effects of compression, although you seem have addressed this issue by your own observation.

Also looked for a bag with the featherless 3M, but no better luck.  Just jackets.  Since the product has been out since 2014, this suggests to me that there might be a flaw in the ointment.  Certainly the compartments in bags are much wider than those in the jackets that use the 3M featherless.  That might have something to do with it.

Will also mention that once purchased a Climashielf Apex bag from Cumulus in Poland because it was considerably lighter than the offerings on REI – well under 2 lbs for a 30 degree bag.   That might be your best bet for a synthetic.

For certain applications we are using a loose fill synthetic somewhat comparable to 650 down.

Image linked to is mine.

View post on imgur.com

UP insulation from dutchware.com

Does anybody know how durable this UP insulation is? It seems the equivalent warmth bit is figured out… I am wondering if there is some unspoken issue with it, as I am not seeing it (advertised at least) in many products, nor do I see many MYOG projects using it.

The best I could find was this set of posts from hammock forums: https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php/156157-UP-Synthetic-Insulation-VS-Down-A-Fight-to-the-Death