DOWN DWR TREATMENT: How well does it work?

Naysayers comments welcome as well as reliable data.

And your “crude” results are to be accepted without question?  It’s never my job to disprove someone else’s claims.  I’m still watching for two things:

1. An explanation of the problem this stuff is supposed to solve.  I’ve only seen tests of little bundles of down clusters in beakers, which mimics nothing in real use.  What does this stuff do that’s better than simple, sensible care to keep a bag dry.  The only problems I can envision (letting the bag get soaked) would not be solved by treated down, synthetic insulation, or anything else.  If the benefit is reduced absorption (and retention) from humid air, show me some tests of that (it won’t happen in a beaker).
2. Show me some tests of the stuff after maybe 5 years, 150 nights’ use, and a couple of washings.  I’ve owned many garments treated to be water resistant, and all of them require re-treatment periodically, sometimes annually.  Why should I believe treatment on down clusters is going to survive repeated stuffings over the next 25 years?

I’ve never had a moisture problem with my down bags and I will remain skeptical of “improvements” until I see convincing evidence.

What does this stuff do that’s better than simple, sensible care to keep a bag dry.

I think it’s a question of safety margins.  DWR treatments don’t really eliminate saturation or wet-out; they just slow it down for a bit…so, if they can do that with no side effects, would there be a compelling reason to not use them?

Why should I believe treatment on down clusters is going to survive repeated stuffings over the next 25 years?

You probably shouldn’t, if nobody is making that kind of longevity claim and you have objective data that refutes it. 🤷‍♂️

Personally, I’ve had a lot of moisture issues with down bags; backpacking in humid locations has made that inevitable.  Even with sensible prevention methods, there’s only so much you can do to keep moisture from saturating the down insulation when the humidity levels are extremely high for a long time.

You probably shouldn’t, if nobody is making that kind of longevity claim and you have objective data that refutes it. 🤷‍♂️

I’ll let someone else collect data to refute the claims nobody made.  :-)

I’ll let someone else collect data to refute the claims nobody made.

I think it’s going to be hard to do data collection for a 25-year wear cycle on down, outside some kind of emulative/simulative test in a lab, but this isn’t my area of expertise.

I haven’t looked to see what kind of lifespan manufacturers are assigning to the DWR on down insulation; does anyone know, offhand?

OKAAAY!

Well I asked for naysayers and it seems most that replied are of the anti-down DWR persuasion.

First, I’ve had my Untreated WM Megalite mummy for 9 years and many nights camping including several below freezing where I wore a down puffy top and bottom for the necessary warmth. SO FAR I only washed this bag once, just before washing it with NIK WAX DWR. So all this washing of down garments is kinda foreign to me. Yes, I’ve washed my down “sweater” 3 times over 10 years but that’s because I ski in it every winter as well as use it around town sometimes.

Second, I’ll say this, my experience with DWR treated down v.s. UN treated down convinced me that a DWR treatment works better, much better when both are submerged in water and squeezed in the hand.

I can’t say anything about Nik Wax because I haven’t tried this test with it.

I made a vest with DWR down but ran out so I started using non DWR down.  Unfortunately, I don’t remember exactly where each is, but after using it for a few years I don’t see any differences.

I don’t think it makes much difference whether you have DWR down or not.

My takeaway is that DWR treated down, as in my newer Eddie Bauer First Ascent vest, resists loss of loft when skiing hard and all say better than my non-DWR treated down in the older Eddie Bauer jacket under the same circumstances. Plus the vest definitely dries faster than the body of the jacket.

Clothing aside it is the sleeping bag I’m most concerned with. I want the bag to retain less body moisture night after night so it does not lose R value gradually. I realize opening the bag and airing it out greatly helps this situation but often a quick breakfast and pack up to get on the trail early and a late camp makes this less useful airing in colder weather near or at freezing. (it’s a 20 F. bag).

Interestingly I’m testing this bag, and my Nature Hike down pants and the EB down jacket as a winter combination this year to see how all these newly DWR’d items work together. I’ll have my -20 F. bag in my SUV IF needed. So yeah, car camp testing first.

Then, if we get a really cold snap I’ll add my DIY bag cover of the lightest (60gm./sq. meter) Alpha Direct mated with a very light polyester cover over the sleeping bag to see how much moisture (as frost) that it collects. I’m sure this light cover will give me another 10 F. of warmth given Alpha Direct’s unusual insulating value. The cover will;l be held on the bag using two elastic strips under the mattress and light Fastex type buckles as with quilts. My long-suffering tailor will do all the sewing once I have it cut and basted together. (He sighs heavily when I bring him backpacking sewing “science projects” but he always does great work.)

I posted that video because I found it interesting. I personally make no statement one way or the other.  I’ve used DWR on a pair of GW pants. Obviously, along with the down, the fabric is also waterproofed. I don’t know what’s doing what. I really don’t care. Plus one on the NatureHikes. I believe theyre warmer than the GW’s. Another garment I’ve done DWR treatment on is a Brynje wool base layer. I think it was an improvement. Ever so slight.

I just watched that video.  Yeah, very interesting.

#1 – it’s hard to get down, either DWR or not, wet.

#2 – even with 20 ounces of water in his quilt, he kept fairly warm, and in the morning it had dried out

That matches my experience – the only time I’ve got my quilt wet was when it rained and I had no tent.

When my quilt gets damp, it dries out over night.

It would be interesting to measure the R value of the quilt while it was drying.  For example, put some watts on one side and then measure the temperature difference.  For constant watts, the temperature difference should increase as it dries out.  I think maybe the temperature difference would be about 1/2 when its wet.  Because evaporation is soaking up some of the heat.