Doo it right

TP?!  Use a CuloClean. Works better and nothing to pack out.

TP?! Use a CuloClean. Works better and nothing to pack out.

2nd and 3rdeded! Recently started this and I’ll never go back. I even use one at home now!

We are getting lots of new people into our local hiking club here in Fairbanks, many of who have no idea how to or why to LNT with regard to poo and pee. They figure all of Alaska is a big “wilderness,” and with so few people, they can despoil it at will. But they’re going on commonly used trails and camping areas. Us old timers regularly post LNT messages which might be a bit preachy, but hey – how else will they know? As with anything, education is the answer, however it can be done.

That’s an issue in the Sierras as well, I think it’s just lots of new people to the trails in general. First violation should be a stern talking to, second violation should be having a paper copy of LNT stapled to forehead, third violation a forced tattoo of LNT on forearms. I’m tired of seeing TP blooms 5ft off the trails.

First time I’ve heard of “mycelia tablets.”

Thanks Paul for raising an important backcountry issue. We are loving our wilderness to death not to mention leaving behind fecal matter that can contaminate the local waters.

The link leads you to the PACT commercial website. I have a hard time believing that the wipe will be any more biodegradable than TP.  The mycelia tablets, wasted $ I think.  Our poop comes into the external world containing a whole culture of active bacteria.  Just bury it or pack it out when required by the land management agency.

Okay, everybody. Let’s all just take the clinical doctor recommended amount of a chill pill.

Nobody needs anything stapled to their forehead or tattooed. That’ll just give these newbies an objective to earn their outdoor degree. Hip new thing.

My opinion, your opinion. Why don’t you go dig up everyone’s cat hole and haul it out for them? Anybody ever go into a porto-potty at a fair recently? Disgusting. Well, if you don’t like looking at other peoples waste. Don’t go where other people go. Write that on a $2 bill.

Creative thinking in Colorado! It might even help.

Cheers

https://www.knowyourh2o.com/outdoor-4/fecal-coliform-bacteria-in-water

https://www.mswmag.com/online_exclusives/2013/10/what_is_white_infrastructure

It’s yet another example of a breakdown in discipline and a lack of any consideration for others in our society. However you can’t come down on the disgusting perpetrators because if you do you’ll be accused of being too harsh. Don’t forget how entitled so many Americans are these days.  People aren’t held to account for their actions anymore. And if a ranger dares to scold someone for defecating anywhere they please they will scream and say “their rights” are being violated by some mean aggressive law enforcement officer. It will all be recorded on video and a lawsuit will be filed against the Forest Service. The pooper will play the victim card and say they’ve been traumatized.

Okay, everybody. Let’s all just take the clinical doctor recommended amount of a chill pill.

Nobody needs anything stapled to their forehead or tattooed. That’ll just give these newbies an objective to earn their outdoor degree. Hip new thing.

My opinion, your opinion. Why don’t you go dig up everyone’s cat hole and haul it out for them? Anybody ever go into a porto-potty at a fair recently? Disgusting. Well, if you don’t like looking at other peoples waste. Don’t go where other people go. Write that on a $2 bill.

I think you’ve missed the point. It’s not about buried TP, it’s about the idiots that leave it out in the open, that don’t know how to dig a proper cathole. It’s become a huge problem in the last ten years with all the Instagram newb’s in the backcountry. The LNT/Wilderness Ethos has been largely lost to this latest group. Of course that’s a big generalization, but it’s also shockingly true to a large degree.

I’ve seen TP scattered around irresponsibly but that’s rare

More common is a small piece of TP on the surface, maybe with a rock on top so it doesn’t blow it away.  I assume the person though it was a good idea to mark where they pooped so someone else wouldn’t accidentally get into it.

Wrong headed thinking.  I even more rarely dig a cat hole and find someone else’s remains, but no big deal, just back up and move over.  If you just cover up your poop it’s not a problem.  Don’t worry about it disturbing someone else, it decomposes quickly.

I think… generally, if you find another person’s poo when digging a cat hole, you didn’t walk far enough away from camp. I make it a point to walk a LONG way from any popular camping areas. Mostly, pollution is only considered such when the offending substance is too concentrated… too many poos in too small of an area… camp away from the popular camps… and walk further… MUCH further…

The deeper you bury it,  the slower it will be to decompose. It’s also less likely to harbor bacteria.

You can generally tell where a fresh hole has been dug. If you’re in a popular camp, you can assume everywhere and you’re probably walking in it.

Poo less Enjoy more

https://www.wikihow.com/Poop-Less-Often

Yeah. For two day hikes, my plan involves cheese and not eating oatmeal.

Monty, maybe cut down on the caffeine?

“LNT/Wilderness Ethos has been largely lost to this latest group”

That needs a laugh track accompaniment. “Old man look at my life.” “Back in my day…”

At this point in the thread perhaps we need a poem. ???

Before we take bad pooping habits as a sign of the End Times, perhaps there are other things happening here.

It strikes me that we are in part witnessing the predictable effects of a successful retail industry that is hungry to sell new gear, market amazing experiences, and bring in new consumers…but absent any meaningful system to provide mentorship or education about what to do while they’re actually out there.

The sterile “check the box” approach to teaching wilderness ethics/regulations that is employed when signing for a permit is obviously lacking.

I have faith that outdoor users on the whole have good intentions and we are simply dealing with a breakdown in education/mentorship at scale. I have faith that a passionate argument from a credible, experienced person, delivered in person in a small group setting would go a long way towards building an ethic among new users. How do we build that?

Should manufacturers/retailers bear some of this burden, perhaps through funding groups that provide it?

And how much responsibility falls on us as individuals to be giving of our time?

If you are a wizened old hiker and do nothing but lament the loss of the wilderness ethic in new generations while doing nothing to meaningfully mentor them…Well.

“I have faith that outdoor users on the whole have good intentions and we are simply dealing with a breakdown in education/mentorship at scale.”

yeah

I was just looking at some pictures I’ve taken of signs at trailheads and usually there’s nothing about digging cat holes.  Or, not very much like Mt Hood Cloudcap:

Maybe there needs to be a more clear poster.  Like have pictures of “TP flowers” and say “don’t do that”

I just want the free trowel.

More common is a small piece of TP on the surface, maybe with a rock on top so it doesn’t blow it away.
The basic idea is OK, but the method is crap (sorry about the pun).
Instead of a bit of unsightly TP on the surface, we put small crossed sticks there. Usually two layers, one cross on top of another, so they don’t look accidental.

Cheers

Has anyone got ahold of the trowel? This is BPL people! How much does it weigh?

I have to admit, I am intrigued by the compactness of the toilet paper. Based on their accounting one tablet is all you need per BM… I always thought the minimum number was three (one up, one down, and one for polishing).

I’m also intrigued by the mycelium. It seems like a much better idea than packing it out.