DIY Nansen choofer clone

[Edward John M]

There must be a reason why experienced expeditioners still use what might be considered heavy or ultra heavy  items, it probably comes down to a trade off between weight,  thermal efficiency and robustness. What you don’t see in the picture above is the secondary insulation for those thermoses. They get put into another insulated bag after filling

[Anonymous]

As modern bear canisters, racing cars, racing boats, and many other applications have shown, modern composites can be much stronger or more durable at less weight than strong/durable single material items like metal.

Balsa by itself, would be a bad idea to use as a container, because the material is too fragile as is.  However, put high quality epoxy doped with carbonized CNC and some EVA foam on the outside, and then fragile balsa become highly durable, but at much less weight than stainless steel.

Humans have a tendency towards being followers, rather than self realized, independent, highly creative beings.  Monkey see, monkey do is the common pattern.

It takes people not afraid to be different and to think outside the box, to come along and shake things up, and change old habits and not adhere to traditional wisdoms/convention. Not everything we do is because of logic and rationality, quite often not.

A number of so called experts told the Wright brothers that they would NEVER successfully fly.  Now look where we are.

My motto is, question everything, do not be content with status quo or consensus thinking, but at the same time, listen to others and consider what they say, what their experience is, etc. It’s a balancing act between true individuality and some humility and openness.

 

[Roger Caffin]

There must be a reason why experienced expeditioners still use what might be considered heavy or ultra heavy items, it probably comes down to a trade off between weight, thermal efficiency and robustness.
Maybe, but I would rather bet on a combination of ‘what’s readily available’ and ‘what can we afford with our budget’. Compare the cost of a large Ti pot with that of a Walmart aluminium ‘grease pot’.

Cheers

[Edward John M]

But are these modern composites food safe at  temperatures close to the boiling point of water at sea level? I think this is why people tend to be conservative and continue to use proven technologies, we have been poisoned to often in the past. Also most people will perform a  cost benefit analysis and then make a best fit decision.

[Edward John M]

Not sure about that Roger. Not with people using carbon fibre sleds costing many thousands of dollars and still using old and relatively heavy stainless steel thermos flasks. I don’t think there is going to be one over riding reason some choices are made but cost does come into it, reliability might be the main reason perhaps and ease of sanitation too

[DAN-Y]

Money is no object to these guys that risk their lives pursuing an adventure they love. They put themselves in a very harsh environment, they need the best equiment money can buy. Even with the best equiment things can go south….fingers exposed due to fiddle factors of certain cook kits????

quote:

conditions of our drop-off, but which, in retrospect, was not the smartest. The rigid tent’s standing room also meant that our expedition stove would be no match to warm the vast living area gripped by cold air, and we  never had a shot at finding solace from the stove’s warmth. All the same, after a chilly night, we set off to a decidedly colder morning with temperatures reaching -60C degrees outside of windchill (the 5 knots of winds would bring this to a baffling

read more  http://www.lastgreatmarch.com/homeblog/north-pole-abort-one-year-but-like-a-heartbreak-it-feels-like-yesterday

[Roger Caffin]

All good points.
Perhaps one should throw into the mix a concern for how the gear will survive in the hands of, shall we say, less experienced users? Stuff does get manhandled a bit when carted up the mountains by unskilled porters.
I was advised against taking my UL tunnel to Nepal for this reason (among others).

Cheers

[Anonymous]

“But are these modern composites food safe at  temperatures close to the boiling point of water at sea level?”

Some yes, some no.

Food and especially medical grade silicone is highly inert at boiling water temps (though it starts to break down at oven baking temps). One of the most inert human made substances there are.  Silicone would be on the inside.

I wouldn’t use epoxy on the inside of such containers, only on the outside. Epoxy, even so called “food grade”, will leach imo. But if it’s only on the outside and not directly in contact with the water and heat, then no need to worry about that.  I doubt it will pass through the outside of balsa into the inside and through the silicone layer.

The better question is, how do some of these materials handle extreme cold temps?  If I remember correctly, I think epoxy does lose some strength and/or adhesion at super cold temps?

Interestingly, some materials are noticeably weakened by extreme cold and some materials actually strengthened. I don’t remember all the common ones and which category they are in.  I think certain aluminum and steel alloys are strengthened.

[Anonymous]

A pic of the stalled balsa/composite super insulated container project below. As it’s currently summer like temps around here, and I do most of my hiking/backpacking from mid fall through to early spring, I’m not too concerned with this project currently. But at some point, would like to get a decent quality jig saw and some specialized blades for it, so I can finish it. I want to get a battery powered one and turn it over and velcro it to a stable surface so I can use it sort of like a band saw.  Oh if I only had a much larger spending budget, the things I could create and design..

 

[DAN-Y]

Thank you for your photos Justin.

Have you considered rolling balsa into a multi-layer tube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwpsme0oj0w

1/8x12x48 balsa sheet
http://www.nationalbalsa.com/balsa_sheet_p/181248sh.htm

[Anonymous]

Have not Dan, but very interesting!  Thank you for pointing it out.  A couple layers or so of S glass or kevlar (or home made carbon fiber) with carbonized H-CNC (highly crystalline nanocellulose) doped epoxy would really help to strengthen it, then an outer layer of thinnish EVA foam for grip and energy absorption (should it fall).

 

Hmmm, I wonder what would happen if you soaked it in a combo of hot water with raw CNC?  Would any of the raw CNC work it’s ways in the pores and fibers of the balsa?

[Roger Caffin]

@Dan – creative.

@Justin – we await the photos.

Cheers

[Anonymous]

@Roger, you mean photos of the finished product?  Might not happen till fall. I have other more pressing projects at the moment.

[DAN-Y]

My motto is, question everything, do not be content with status quo or consensus thinking, but at the same time, listen to others and consider what they say, what their experience is, etc. It’s a balancing act between true individuality and some humility and openness.

 

Justin….. we look forward to some results in the fall.

@moondog55, where in Alaska will you be departing from next year?

[Anonymous]

Will do Dan.  Honestly though, if one isn’t using much balsa to begin with, it might make sense to just use pre made bamboo containers. Such as this one:

(very strange though, how it goes from 17 dollars for one, to 192 dollars for 2! I wonder if someone forgot a necessary decimal point somewhere earlier?!).

That way, one only has to worry about making a lid. It will also have more toughness and durability from the get go, so that one could probably get away with just epoxy+very light and cheap E glass fiber glass cloth + EVA foam on the outside.  Or, if you want to go more eco mode, instead use some flax linen woven cloth and high bio content epoxy (and/or some bio foam).

 

[DAN-Y]

Ok, let’s experiment with bamboo canisters with lids. You can afford them, do some thermal testing and report back in the fall.

https://www.sfsalt.com/bamboo-canisters

https://www.japanbargain.com/large-bamboo-canister-with-lid-5-3×7-5in/

 

https://www.sfsalt.com/bamboo-canisters

https://www.dhgate.com/product/handmade-box-bamboo-storage-box-canister/416893824.html

[Anonymous]

Heck, something like that would cut down the work/time factor considerably, so I would be tempted to build a quick prototype and test much earlier than fall.

[DAN-Y]

Great, get a small double wall mug with lid same size as bamboo container.  Nice project 👍

[Edward John M]

PM incoming Dan

[DAN-Y]

Went to Pizza Hut today, saw this electric soup/sauce warmer that would make a nice large double wall arctic cooker. A small modification to it would be an easy project….just need to find an inexpensive used one at a restaurant supply house :-) They had pizza sauce in it.

https://vollrath.com/Products/Countertop-Equipment/Warming-Equipment/Cayenne-Round-Heat-N-Serve-Rethermalizer

John, saw your PM message, will respond soon.

[Anonymous]

Ordered a 9.5cm X 21cm bamboo container for 10 dollars. Shipping will take awhile, says it will be delivered in between June 17th and July 9th. Probably coming direct from Asia.

I have an idea for a new kind of insulation that I might want to try with this project. A combination of fluffed up microfiber polypropylene fibers rolled into balls, reinforced with/connected to .5 lb density PU foam within the core of the fluffy PP fiber balls (starting to sound like an old SNL skit. Cue the other US President…  “Try my delicious, Pete’s Sweaty Balls”…).

But I probably will just stick with good old, tried and true Goose down.

Will be testing the super insulated bamboo core composite container vs a large SS vacuum insulated HydroFlask container.

[DAN-Y]

Sounds good to me. Thank you for your time and ideas.

[DAN-Y]

Something happened during my testing of the 2 litre mod pot….water came to a boil, I shut the valve off and the water kept boiling for 15 seconds from latent heat within the set-up. How hot is that! :-) Cheap thrills for a stovie/stover LOL

[Anonymous]

Very nice.  Cue Phil Collins, “Something Happened on the Way to Testing; Heaven”

[Author]

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