DCF Floors

[Stumphges]

MLD and Zpacks use 0.7 oz DCF for floors. Tarptent and HMG use 1.0 oz. Is 0.7 up to the job?

[JCH]

ZPacks uses 1.0 for the Duplex floor. See the “materials” tab. 
This is true for all of their floored shelters I checked and is true of my Duplex.

[R]

I’ve always known Zpacks to use 1oz, and on the two I just spot checked, they still do.  MLD lists 0.75 for their separate floors, and inner tent floors.

For a while, RSBTR had a 0.8 that had the same laminate as the 1oz, and less fiber – so just as tough, lower tensile strength, which makes sense for a floor.

And there in lies the gotcha with referring to DCF solely by its weight – the fiber content and laminate weight are two separate parameters.  Referring just to their combined weight doesn’t tell the whole story.

Between the cottage industry preference for 10z., and the availability of much cheaper alternatives at the same weight, DCF isn’t a compelling floor material unless you really are going for every last gram, and don’t mind the high price and short life span of a lighter grade.

If your concern is weight, but you don’t like the price, you can tape up a polycro sheet in to a bathtub at half the weight, a fraction of the price, and expect a season of use out of it.

[M B]

In my opinion….no.

0.7 is not good enough for floor unless put polycro under it or such, which negates the purpose.

 

Zpacks uses 1.0.  after 80 nights it’s looking pretty haggard. I doubt it maintains its waterproofness, mine have never been put to the test.

 

I have a Cuben bivy w/0.7, I use a 1 oz ground sheet under it.

 

30 D silnylon is still the best floor material for UL imo.  Bottoms should be 30D, sides can be .7.

[Sam Farrington]

Re:  “Zpacks uses 1.0.  after 80 nights it’s looking pretty haggard.”
Thanks for the distinction between fiber and mylar weight in DCF. BPL is a learning experience.

I’ve never had a 30D silnylon floor show any sign of wear, and I think this is because its slippery quality deters punctures, rips or abrasion both under the floor and from within the tent. Note this is only a benefit with floors that are pulled taut at the corners; otherwise, the silylon might tend to bunch up or slip underneath you.

There are different qualities of silnylon. The Dupont 6.6 30D nylon offered by RBTR is 1.3 oz/sq/yd and spec’d at over 3000mm HH, but offered only in the color white. Bought some in Charcoal when they first offered it. But a white floor would help to prevent misplacing or leaving gear in a rolled up tent, so maybe not such a bad idea. A pale green or tan silnylon would be ideal for a floor, were it available in the best quality.

A floor uses a lot less yardage than a canopy, and 0.3 oz/sq/yd is not much of a weight penalty for being able to dispense with a footprint, polycro or other. So why do they use heavy and stiff DCF for floors? Maybe because silnylon has been viewed as too slippery, but with the sil chevrons on the bottom of my sleeping pad, courtesy of Nemo, this has never been an issue. Or maybe it is a question of bonding rather than sewing a DCF floor to a DCF tent. That could be it. But since I don’t use DCF, this is not an issue. Or maybe it’s a matter of not sourcing different materials for a tent, when wholesale quantities of just one material can be bought for less.

Can DCF be recycled after it wears out? That might make a one oz DCF floor worthwhile, if you can afford it and somehow get it rolled up and stuffed into the pack.

[Roger Caffin]

>>  I’ve never had a 30D silnylon floor show any sign of wear, and I think this is because its slippery quality deters punctures, rips or abrasion both under the floor and from within the tent.
Agree. I have had a few tiny holes in my blue tunnel, but you should have seen what it was pitched on!

A wet silnylon poncho seems to slide through the scrub. I was expecting damage, but it didn’t.

>> Can DCF be recycled after it wears out?
Define ‘wears out’.
As what normally happens is that it develops lots of tiny holes at the 2-axis creases (which leak), I doubt it.

Cheers

[Brad Rogers]

DCF just doesn’t make since for shelter floors to me.  DCF has great tear strength, which makes it good for fly’s, but it’s Achilles heel is abrasion and puncture resistance, two things floors are subject to nearly every use.  I wish you saw more DCF shelters available with Sil Floors.

[Stumphges]

Thanks everyone. My mistake about ZPacks using 0.8 DCF. Looks like MLD is the only maker (apart from BPWD) using 0.8 oz for floors.

The arguments against DCF floors are rock solid. I wonder why MLD uses the lighter stuff, and I wonder how many DCF floors they sell. My interest is in the lightest possible shelter but obviously don’t wanna stupid light. Henry Shires choosing 1.0 oz for the floors in his Lithium series tends to make me think DCF floors might not be as bad as they would seem, but this choice may have been driven more by marketing/aesthetics than utility/durability.

Apart from weight, friction is the only real advantage of DCF over silnylon. The PU/TPU-inner coating fabrics are superior, but are a bit heavier as well.

[jscott]

I use polycryo under my tent floors no matter what. It greatly lessens abrasion, adds a bit of puncture resistance for your sleeping pads, keeps the tent floor from becoming muddy or as dirty, all for about two ounces. I think it’s worth it. And then a non sil-nylon floor might not be a deal breaker.

[Robert Richey]

I experienced leaks in my Duplex during a downpour in 2018, but was unable to discover where it was coming from for some time. I eventually discovered the floor was leaking in the middle of the floor lengthwise over quite a large area approximately 8 inches wide when under the pressure of me laying on it. Duplex offered a solution of sorts with 5.25 x 13 inch repair inserts, but given the extent of the area that solution seems less than optimal as several of the inserts would be required. I was thinking cutting out the area and using DCF tape to install polycro or just going floorless using polycro as a floating floor. Has anybody actually tried either solution?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

We use a 15D sil coated woven for the floor in our DCF tent (X-Mid Pro) because I don’t think the 1.0oz DCF makes sense. It’s more expensive but doesn’t seem better because it’s not lighter and makes the tent bulkier to pack and I’m skeptical it lasts longer so I just don’t see an advantage. Tarptent expressed a similar sentiment a month or two ago on reddit and said they are moving away from DCF floors.

With that said, there might be a way they make sense. I think the thicker .18 mylar is needed on the bottom but less so on the top, and the amount of dyneema inside isn’t nearly as important as that lower mylar since abrasion is the top concern, so a version of DCF with the thicker .18 mylar on the bottom and the thinner 0.08 mylar on top, and then with less dyneema (“1” instead of “2”) could make sense as it would actually save weight and wouldn’t have such a packed size penalty. Essentially this is 0.5oz DCF except with the thicker bottom mylar. This version actually exists since RipstopbytheRoll has it:
https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/dyneema-composite-fabric/products/0-67-oz-dyneema-composite-fabric-ct1e-08-k-18

That weighs 0.67oz/yd, so you’d save 0.33oz/yd (about 1 oz on a 2P tent). Probably not for everyone but could be a viable way for the gram weenies to save a bit of weight since I expect it holds up about as well as the 1.0oz stuff yet actually saves weight and has a smaller packed size.

[Brad W]

How would one know what is the thicker side when manufacturing? There would need to be some way to differentiate.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Yeah you’d have to watch that for sure. A trained eye can tell, but certainly there would need to be care used.

[HkNewman]

What would be the weight of cut polycro to minimize that problem though?  No dog in this fight as all my present shelters use sil-poly or sil-nylon floors, but if I got  a future shelter with a DCF floor .. some light polycro cut to 1 oz and change wouldn’t be a bad add.  Another thought is a DCF floor is more repairable in case a thorn or whatever slices it.

[Brad W]

@hknewman I don’t think you could get a polycryo footprint for a 2 person tent at 1oz. Most of mine, the thinner 0.7m are 2-4oz.

[Robert Richey]

I agree that DCF is apparently not the best material for a tent floor. I believe I always used polycro under my Duplex, but over the years moving around over the central area lengthwise probably resulted in subtle abrasion, not readily visible, and then leakage if there was pooled water underneath. Given the popularity of backpacking these days, finding the perfectly draining site is not often possible, and trenching violates LNT, so having a highly water resistant floor is a huge plus. The area in my Duplex which seems to be affected is about 10 inches wide down most of the length, so the weight of the polycro and DCF tape would not be much more than an ounce to overlay it as a patch, I think.

[JCH]

I’ve used a double-thick polycryo (Duck brand patio door seal) under my Duplex since new.  I have never had a leak and routinely hold the floor up to a bright light to look for damage…none found.  I don’t think DCF is the best material for a shelter floor, but it will work just fine if you take care of it.

[HkNewman]

Brad W

2 person tent at 1oz

Ooops thinking about getting polycro smaller for a 1 person abode.  Note I trim to fit my likely side-sleeping torso more as (since these floors should be waterproof and fairly cut resistant) to keep the sand from grinding into my floor fabric than anything else … so I’m not carrying a lot of wet sand or soil when I pack up.    One way to make a package of polycro last awhile.

Fwiw, thinking of going bivy next year, but in that case I’d probably go with an oversized polycro to make a floor like surface.  Maybe perception at a certain point?

[bradmacmt]

I’ve used a double-thick polycryo (Duck brand patio door seal) under my Duplex since new.  I have never had a leak and routinely hold the floor up to a bright light to look for damage…none found.  I don’t think DCF is the best material for a shelter floor, but it will work just fine if you take care of it.

That makes sense to me. I always use a Tyvek footprint anyway because I like the option of sleeping tentless.

[HkNewman]

30D silnylon floor show any sign of wear

I’ve had a thorn puncture through silnylon flooring (more the floor sidewall) when a group decided on a brushy campsite.  Imagine it can happen on the actual floor too with the right size

At least DCF can take an easy field repair, though I actually prefer sil since it packs up easier.

[DWR D]

“At least DCF can take an easy field repair”

GearAid now sells a silnylon patch kit… peal off backing, stick on hole, press…

 

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