Daily mileage restriction for backpacking in GNP

They’re probably trying to set this up so people aren’t grouping.

My educated guess is that NPS is worried about people overestimating their abilities and not making it to their assigned campsite. A strong hiker would probably have better luck making a case in-person — allowing a bc ranger to size them up.

“Why can’t I choose how many miles I want to go?”

Unfortunately a lot of people will not understand why you would even ask.  If that’s what it says…there must be a reason so don’t be challenging anything there…I see that constantly.

I for one appreciate your question and am curious as well.

In Guadalupe NP we wanted to do a 14 mile day and the rangers put a note on our permit that said, “TRIP NOT ADVISED”

GCNP is pretty paternalistic.  Don’t hike to the River and back in a day.  Go past Indians Gardens and you’ll DIE!  Submit a hiking resume if you’re asking to leave the main trail corridor, etc.

Somewhat understandably since they have to deal with all the people who get in over their heads due to mileage, vertical feet and/or the heat.  And there are SO many forms to fill out when someone dies, helicopter or mules to get the body out, and those calls to the family are so awkward.

For the day hikes, say a R2R2R, I’ve found it’s easier to just do it, don’t talk about it.  My kids – age 11 and age 9 – loved all the warning signs and exhausted HS football players strewn along the trail when going to the River and back in a day.

Campsites are harder, though.  I’d suggest trying to find a BC ranger to talk to and offer to send a summary of your high-mileage trips to date.

In GCNP the concern of the park isn’t entirely unwarranted.  It’s an easy place to get in trouble- because you’re literally starting in mild temps and hiking into a potentially scorching hole and still have to get yourself back out.  Despite signs and warnings, they’re hauling people out constantly.  I’ve done two R2R2R hike/runs (one when you were there) and I’ve seen people have to get rescued on both.  Nobody in our party, but other hikers that went too far.

It’s my understanding that GCNP is considering requiring permits for R2R2R attempts and other long hikes, not just overnights.  They know it’s become a sort of race course and want to regulate.

As for GNP, who knows the motivation, it might just be flat out bureaucratic nonsense.  But I generally presume a lot of hikers on this site have a higher skill set than the average park visitor and many of us have little idea what sort of shenanigans the park service has to deal with when it comes to overly optimistic and/or unprepared travelers- and its NPS/SAR/EMS employees that have to risk their own safety and spend their money to deal with them.

Craig: I totally see where they’re coming from.  And appreciate that it is very hard to discern the experienced hiker from the newbie blowhard.  And if I really want to do 30-40-50 miles in a day, there are no end of trails I can do up here that require no permits at all.  And that is true pretty for much all of us.  I did a 20-hour, 100k hike (I DON’T run) through regional parks in the SF East Bay when I was half my age.

But something attracts folks like you and I to these dramatic, ironic hikes as it does the less experienced.  Outside Magazine, social media, YouTube, and FKT websites all contribute to their popularity and therefore the expense and occasional tragedies of people getting in over their heads.

As mentioned above, I guess it makes sense that the park service must have to put up with shenanigans that I have no idea about.  They must have a problem with people getting in over their heads and not making their designated campsite.  I will just have to live with doing shorter days or go elsewhere.

Jeff: get a permit for campsites 15 miles apart.  Hike there, hike back, hike there again.  45 mile days and it’s all legal!

But seriously, you could plan 5-10 miles of side trips each day.

NPS averages about 375 helicopter evacuations per year in GCNP.  No wonder the NPS is gunshy in advising people of unknown abilities to do whatever they want.

Permits in Glacier usually provide vertical gain and loss figures for each day, but most permits I’ve had with big miles omit that, and the permit ranger has to enter the fields by hand. My guess would be the route permutations beyond 16 haven’t been entered into the computer and there isn’t enough volume to make doing so worth while.

Write GNP attention Brian McKeon (chief permit officer) and make your grievance know. Enough complaints and they’ll change it.

Agree with David very much, most people do not do the milage in a day that most of us here think as normal for us in the “lighter, faster, farther” crowd. Seems the only rangers that “get it” are on long distance trails. But as far as the question as to the restrictions, no one has said anything about the possibility of impact on the environment. They want you to stay in established campsites for more than one reason. Love that term “paternalistic”. :-)

My family and I had an interesting discussion over Thanksgiving about how the NPS is usually first in instituting restrictions to protect their lands. The discussion started due to the Arches plans to restrict backpackers and backcountry 4×4 in their area come March 2017. Like many of us here we are not too thrilled to hear that news. We used to spend vacations in the backcountry there. As a family we have practiced as low impact recreation as is humanly possible and many trips turned into mostly trash pick up and mitigating the previous impact of inconsiderate other visitors. It is very difficult to not do damage to the delicate “living” topsoils and plants by going off roads and trails, and by dispersed camping. And as many here know those impacts are there for decades if not permanent.  We have seen the massive explosion of humans traveling/visiting in the more remote areas in all the parks and public lands just in our short careers. Along with a very real downsizing of actual ranger, game and fish, forest service boots on the ground out there. Many of our family are retired USFS and SAR and USGS other agencies so we feel for both sides, love of the wild places is what fueled our desires to serve, but we understand the reasonings behind restrictions. It doesn’t mean we like it. So what it basically breaks down to is if you want to go the milage YOU want, and camp where and when you want legally, you might consider a different place to go where it is still permitted. Our thinking is you’d better go while you can because the restrictions are only going to continue as our planet gets more crowded in times to come, and the powers that be strive to protect what we have left. Understand please I am not saying it’s right or wrong, it just is what it is.

I wrote GNP about the mileage restrictions.  I got the following response.  While it is frustrating not being able to plan days longer than 16 miles I can understand why they put this restriction in place. I wish there was some way around this restriction without taking the risk of a walk in permit.

“We put the mileage restriction on advance reservations as a resource protection measure.  We were finding that backpackers who had very long mileages on their advance reservation itineraries were frequently not able to complete those long days and were staying at other campgrounds along their route and displacing campers with permits for those campgrounds, or just camping on the side of the trail. So for advance reservations, where we don’t have an opportunity to discuss the ramifications of long mileages directly with backpackers, we limit the mileage to 16 per day. We recognize this is frustrating for those such as yourself, who are capable of big mileage, but we believe this advance reservation restriction serves the greater good by preventing resource damage and potential campground confrontations between displaced permit holders and off-permit campers.”
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A strong hiker would probably have better luck making a case in-person — allowing a bc ranger to size them up.

Granted this was a decade ago, but when I requested a larger mileage itinerary at GNP, they gave it to me for reasons said above.  I find if you calmly state your background and you seem prepared, you’ll get the larger mileage days approved.

Over the phone? Through email? Not-so-much.  National Parks are conservative for many reasons.

I’ve never tried to get a reservation like that via the permitting system, but I was definitely issued a permit for 18 miles in person. They weren’t enthusiastic but I explained that I was experienced enough to do it. I ran into a girl who was doing something like 28 miles a day. Most rangers will issue you one person. You just need to ask.