Custom Pack Features?

Where are you looking? Zimmerbuilt? McHale?

The McHale LPB 36 seems like a good starting point.

How much weight do you want to be able to carry?

If it’s 30-40lbs (or more) what about a Zimmerbuilt custom pack on a Seek Outside Frame?

Yes, I’m looking at a McHale. Probably LBP37, but we’ll see when I get my fitting pack and have a chance to put it through it’s paces. The one pisser is that Dan doesn’t do sewn-on water bottle pockets so they’ll have to be removable. Hard to beat his reputation, though. Including bottle pockets, stays, and waist belt the base pack should be below 3 pounds- that seems definite. Possibly close to 2.6 pounds? Some of the examples on his website get close…

Weight? Well, as I mention it will very occasionally be ridiculous due to to water weight and food. I like to get remote, and one non-desert hike that I have in long-term planning for retirement includes a 10-day stretch without a supply drop. Right now my BPW tends to be 12 pounds (solo) to 15 pounds (hiking with my buddies), or just depending upon my mood. So yes with a week of food that can be 30 pounds. Plus water. Or BPW can be even more when I’m out with my 9-year-old since I have to carry most of her stuff, too. That always seems to turn into more camping-and-playing-with-the-fire than “hiking” per se, so I may as well be comfortable. Also, as mentioned I am going to have add-ons for more volume for winter or whatever, so it could presumably go higher if I ever retire and go tramping through South America or whatnot. Yet I do not want this to turn into some monstrosity of an alpine pack. That base pack has to remain simple.

I don’t think I would want Dan’s neat shoulder strap system. But maybe?

Don’t worry about his water bottle pockets they are amazing.

I have a LBP36 in 210d Dyneema grid and with 2 water bottle pockets and 2 hipbelt pockets it is 3lbs 5oz.

I bought this pack to be my do everything pack but it wasn’t big enough for a two week trip this past summer so I went with a Seek Outside Unaweep 4800 and really liked how it cartied.

The McHale is meticulously sewn and has lots of great little design details. The water bottle pockets and hipbelt are nearly perfect (the seek outside hipbelt is really nice too if you go 1 size up IMO).

The frame on the Unaweep is innovative and would make a great MYOG platform.

210 Dyneema grid is about 4oz/sqyd, right? That’s what MLD uses and I have to say that it seems like a good tradeoff between weight and durability.

4.4oz per sq yd is the figure you see most often.

If you’re shelling out for a McHale worrying about weight at the expense of future utility seems short sighted.  It’d be a heck of a thing to have a 600+ dollar pack that won’t work for whatever thing you get into 4 years down the road because it’s too small or lacks a certain feature.

That said, it’s always seemed like McHale does modular features/pockets well, so all you need is adequate size and few other things for future-proofing.  I’d bump your size up to 70ish liters, but do it by making the pack deeper rather than taller.  Add three side compression straps and you can shrink it up no problem.  The add-on side pockets go over the bottom strap so no issue with function there.  Twin daisy chains allow for just about anything to be tied on, including something like an add-on mesh pocket which can stay on the pack most of the time, and be replaced if (when) it gets trashed.  I’d also get the full suspension meal deal, without which a McHale just seems like a really expensive HMG with improved hipbelt.

McHale Sarc user here, like Dave mentions I can strip mine down to bare bones or make it a complete monster.

Thanks Dave/Stephen,

Yeah, I’ve been favoring a real compression system over the past couple of days of hand-wringing. They’re easily removable, right?

But I really really don’t want to buy one of Dan’s ginormous alpine packs. I simply don’t think I need that. What I’ve been slightly waffling on regarding volume is whether to make the base stripped pack “just right” for my current longer (week-ish) hikes at 50L, or just a bit bigger. The LBP37 would be “just right” in that sized for me it should be about 50L packed to the gills, but I have indeed considered larger LBPs. I think a 70L SARC is way out of range for me, though. They are also complex (read: heavy).

Someday I may want to carry a safety rope and protection for a tenuous crossing or to get across a glacier or get past a small problem in a canyon, but I will never be doing technical climbing, canyoneering or alpine mountaineering.

Someday I may have a packraft and accoutrements to haul.

Someday I may have backcountry skis to schlep along.

I’m going to start invading winter more and more from the shoulder seasons, but I do tend to head for the southwest in winter.

So, do you really think that I need a 70L main pack, Dave? Frankly, I’m a bit taken aback by that. I’m not the uber-outdoor guy that you are, who does freakin everything. Dan makes LBPs up to 40″ circumference, which sized for me would be about 60L when packed to the gills, but I had been thinking that even that might be too much. I was thinking more LBP38 (54L) or 39 (57L) if I were to go big. Do you not think that adding modular side-pockets and a full-sized lid and daiseys to strap stuff to would cover me for future needs? What activities are you thinking of that would require that volume?

As you said, I’m spending enough on this pack that I want to get it right, so I’m definitely listening.

Next question- When you mention strapping a front pocket to the daiseys, are you saying that I should forgo a permanent sewn-on front (aka kangaroo) pocket and just use a strap-on one? Or do you mean “in addition to”? Because I pretty much always use the front pocket on my current pack (MLD Prophet), so I’m wondering if there’s really any benefit to going with a removable one. The sewn-on one would be lighter.

Finally, since the cat’s out of the bag that we’re talking about a McHale pack, do you have any thoughts on which size of bottle pockets? Obviously, bigger is bigger. His regular pockets can fit 64oz Gatorade bottles with room to spare, so I’d been thinking of getting his smaller ones that are 1L with room to spare. Or, hell, I might get one of each but add the ski pockets on the large ones or something.

My thought was that 70 liters would be the outer limit of what you might want: big enough for October packrafting with 10 days of food, for instance, or hauling almost everything for two people on a five day trip with a kid.  Regarding packrafting specifically, 70 liters is not overkill.  I’ve seen plenty of folks fill up an HMG 4400 and still have to beverly hillbillie stuff to the outside.  I strongly prefer to put my raft and paddle in my pack, an having plenty of room makes that easier (and it less likely you’ll put holes in when you cram paddle shafts down the sides).

With a good compression system a wider pack isn’t a problem most of the time.  It’s when you get a really tall pack that digging to find things in a smaller load becomes a pain.  A 40″ circumference is not all that big in my book.  For reference Seek Outside’s redesigned Divide (4500 cubes, ~72 liters) has a 44 inch upper circumference (bottom circ is smaller), and is 34 inches tall.  Very manageable and versatile dimensions.

Dave- to be absolutely sure that I understand you, do you mean 70L total volume, or do you mean specifically a 70L main pack compartment?

Because hear me out- Dan’s small side pockets each add about 500ci, according to his wretched website. (The larger ones are 650ci.) So a 54L LBP38 with +16L side pockets will be ~70L, plus I’ll have a full-sized lid to add if needed. So if what you’re talking about is total volume, wouldn’t this cover it? Or are you firm that the main pack alone should be 70L?

Or is that the volume per pair of side pockets? (I did say the website is wretched. I’ll ask him.) If so I guess I could just get a 57L LBP39 and the larger pockets, which would be +11L.

Side pockets would let me have a simpler and smaller pack for the 95% of the time that I’m not using them, so I had thought they’d be a good solution. “95% solution” is one of my mantras.

On prior weekenders with my kid I’ve used my Osprey Exos 58L, and that was definitely not a volume challenge. But I guess I do have to think about things like packrafting.

Even there, though, I’m never going to be looking for gnarly whitewater action for the same reason I don’t climb- I’m far to cowardly and aware of my own mortality. I would just use a packraft to facilitate backcountry travel. Which granted in the west means at least some moderate whitewater. But moderate. And I don’t see myself doing it in conditions where a drysuit would be mandatory.

ALSO- Sorry about editing my prior post while you were posting. One of my character flaws.

Get an Lbp so.

Is that supposed to be LBP 50, Stephen?

It’s by Circumference and not capacity, so 36 or 38 they come in (I think). Best call Dan and ask him what capacity that equates to.

Yes, I’m all over Dan’s volume measurements. I was talking about your post. I couldn’t figure out what those two characters were after LBP. It looks like “LBP so” and I wasn’t parsing that. I thought it might be meant to be LBP 50, which I hadn’t heard of, and thought you might have been confused. :) My bad.

Hmm. On his website Dan does show a stripped-down Sarc-Chasm– which are 41″ circumference- with bottle pockets that he says weighs 2.5 pounds. I’m really curious what fabric that’s made of.

Cool, welcome to the club.

I mean 70 liters in the main pack.  I don’t count pockets towards volume, but that’s more a reflection of my packing style than anything.  Big things can’t fit in side or front pockets, and as mentioned I hate strapping stuff outside.  But if exceeding 50 liters will be a 5% occurrence going smaller might be the way to go.

Thanks, Dave.

I guess I will aim for somewhat higher main pack volume per your recommendations, but probably not 70L. (I guess that I didn’t know what I wanted in a pack after all…)

I too am opposed to the Beverly Hillbillies packing style but by that I mean things like cups and sunscreen hanging off carabiners and external carriage of tents or sleeping bags, etc. But other than the annoying avoidable weight it implies I’m okay with modular add-on pockets especially since it’ll be as you note a 5% occurrence. Heck I think I could tolerate external kayak paddles, too, especially if tucked behind the side-pockets. Certainly a rifle.

I also tend to ignore front/belt/side pocket volumes when comparing packs, but I think that purpose-built volume-expanding add-ons like McHale’s side-pockets are a different thing.

So I’ll aim for a total pack volume around 70L with the modular side pockets, which will mean an LBP38 or 39 I think. Heck, that basic pack without the add-ons would be about the volume of a large ALICE pack.

Thanks again.

Anyone else want to chime in?

I just heard back- those are indeed the approximate volumes of Dan’s side pockets per pocket.  So, yes, two small side pockets total 1000ci (16L) and two large side pockets total 1300ci (21L).

I verified the weight of my McHale accessories and the hip belt pockets in 210d dyneema grid are 2.9oz per pair and the water bottle pockets are 3.0oz per pair in 210d dyneema grid with full specta bottoms. My pack as used with the side compression straps removed is 3lbs 5oz.

So that’s the LBP36… Above you imply that the 3lbs 5oz “pack as used” includes those bottle and belt pockets, so stripped it would be almost exactly 3 lbs?

I have a Full Dyneema LBP 36. Weights…

• Everything = 4lbs 9.5 oz to include bayonet setup
• Without P&G extensions, by-pass harness straps and bear canister straps, but including top lid, water pockets, hip belt pockets, and one shoulder strap pocket = 4lbs 3.9 oz
• Without all the accessories = 3lbs 6.0 oz (no top lid, water pockets, hip pockets or shoulder strap pockets)

I never got around to trimming all the excess lengths of webbing.

Nick- is that his old Dyneema or his new Spectra? Because though those are both just different manufacturers’ trade names for UHMWPE they do differ significantly in the weave. His lightest Dyneema used to be 4oz/yd, but apparently it isn’t made any more. His new Spectra has a looser weave to the point that though it is still strong nonetheless pointy things can worm their way between the weave so Dan feels he must reinforce it a bit with a laminated cuben lining. Thus even though the Spectra is 3.5oz/yd by itself the end result is more like 5oz/yd, so it’s heavier than his old stuff. He will not do the Spectra unlaminated.

Can you tell I’ve been researching the hell out of this?

Dean,

It is Dyneema. The bottom of the pack is Spectra, but probably a heavier fabric than he would use for the body. I don’t remember, but I think the shoulder straps and hip belt are made from Spectra, but I could be wrong.

My philosophy is to spec out what will work best in the long run. Then look at the weight. You know, “form follows function.” I still do trips with a frameless cuben pack and base weights under 5 lbs, but most of the time food and water weight dictate a pack with a frame and suspension that actually work with the weight carried. A 4 lb pack doesn’t bother me if it carries well, I can save a lot of weight other places. On most trips with both of my McHale packs my base weight is under 10 lbs anyway. It’s the water and food that is heaviest.

I am wary of Cuben in packs, but surprisingly my zPacks Zero won’t die. My McHale Bump has cuben hybrid on the inside of the rear of the bag and it has held up and I have used it the heck out of that pack all over the US. One thing about Dan, he tested Cuben for years before he started using it and he “overbuilds” packs so they don’t fail.

Yes the 3lbs 5oz is my 210d dyneema grid LBP36 with two hipbelt pockets and two regular (32oz Gatorade bottle) water bottle pockets.

That has the side compression straps and all other non essential do-dads removed.

McHales modular system is fantastic and his water bottle pockets are second to none. The hipbelt is top notch too but I also like the Seek Outside full wrap belt a lot sized up one size for more of a wrap (size L 30″ for my 34″ pant size waist)

My much larger SO Unaweep is lighter and carries weight(30 plus)- even better (my McHale does not have the bypass system) so I am often torn on what pack to use.

Dan’s packs are overkill in some areas but are built to last. Dan is a pack maestro and has lots of little things in his packs that you can tell a lot of thought went into.

Not that it would ever happen but a McHale pack with the Unaweep suspension would be an interesting beast.