Current Rain Shell King

[John Papini]

In the market for a new rain shell for 2019 PCT thru hike. Am considering the following and would like the group’s expert advice:

1. Patagonia M10 Anorak. In 2016 I used the M10 full-zip for 8.19 oz; the anorak is 7oz. It is one of only two 3-layer jackets on this list. From my experience of the M10, this jacket was great and but for my reading about lighter options, I would have just purchased the M10. Note that I ditched my windshirt about half-way through my hike and used the M10 for that purpose, when needed. My biggest concern with the new M10 is that it isn’t a full zip — for temperature regulation in 2016 I often had my M10 fully unzipped or almost nearly so.
2. Berghaus Men’s Hyper 100 Shell. This is the lightest contender, at a whopping 3.5 oz. This also claims to be a 3 layer jacket. Website claims breathability of 55,000gm2+MVTR and a hydrostatic head of 20,000 mm. Based on weight alone (and given that I probably had to deal with 20 days of rain out of my 150 day thru hike), I’m leaning toward this choice, although I read one user complaining that in torrential downpours, the jacket zipper is a weak link and caused this user to get wet through the zipped up zipper. Anybody experienced this?
3. ZPacks Vertice. An interesting pick because it does not rely on DWR, so it shouldn’t wet out like the first two choices. 6.2 oz, its heavier than the Berghaus but lighter than the M10. It has pit zips. Claimed breathability of 56,000 and a 20,000 HH – similar to Berghaus.
4. HMG Shell. Also not dependent on DWR. Weighs 5.8 oz. Claimed breathability of 30,000 and a 10,000 HH. Aside from being a bit lighter, would seem to be inferior to ZPacks, which also uses DCF.
5. Arc’teryx Norvan SL. Weighs 4.4 oz, but I can’t find breathability or HH ratings on website. I don’t think it’s a 3 layer jacket. Also, I noticed one reviewer who had the same complaint as the user had above with regard to the Berghaus — apparently for this reviewer, extended rain led to leaks through the zipper.
6. LuL Micro10 Rain Shell. Weighs 4.10 oz. Claims breathability of 30,000 and HH of 10,000. 2.5 layer. Note that he has similarly weighted shells made out of Silpoly 4K and Pertex Shield. If Luke’s is your pick, I’d love to know the differences between these three.

So, here are my questions (please don’t factor in price when answering and keep in mind I’m trying to determine the best piece of gear for a PCT thru hike, with its attendant conditions):

1. Of the above, what would you pick and why?
2. Are there other jackets I should consider instead, either due to having a lighter weight or better performance than the jackets listed above?
3. Any idea what is the CFM of the above jackets? I’m still not sure what this number means, but it’s on my “to do” list.
4. What do you think about using the above rain shells to double as wind shirt? Note that I did this with my M10 in 2016 and it worked out fine. A lot of dedicated wind shirt advocates on here, though, so I may revisit that decision.
5. Finally, I’ve always thought that 3-layer rain jackets would hold up better over time than 2.5 or 2 layer. Is this enough reason to pick the M10 or Berghaus Hyper over the other picks, which are not full 3 layer jackets?

Thanks for your help!

[Brad Rogers]

I would at least look at the Columbia Outdry EX Featherweight.  About 7.5oz and no DWR to wear off.  Not too expensive either.

[Matthew / BPL]

I like my LUL silnylon shell. I’ll take mechanical ventilation over a WPB membrane any day. His pit zips are really nice (they go deep down the arms rather than down the torso where my backpack straps are). Adjustable cuffs and hem allow control over ventilation as well.

Please keep in mind I hike in areas that see infrequent (but heavy) rain: AZ and the Sierra.

Unfortunately I don’t think you will be able to get him to make you one these days.

[Jeff McWilliams]

ZPacks site says it’s a 3L WPB fabric with “Durable, effective C6 water repellant on the exterior”.  Not sure where you got the information that it does not rely on a DWR.

I would avoid LUL at all costs. Lots of posts on here about the company. Used to be good (I own an eVent jacket from him) but now he’s taking money and not fulfilling orders.

The Norvan SL is not rated for backpacking, but as a running jacket.  The material may tear.  Not sure I would trust it for a full thru hike.

I would add the Columbia OutDry Ex Featherweight, Marmot Phoenix, and Outdoor Research Realm shells to your comparison list.

The first two have “permanent DWR”.  The OR Realm and Interstellar (heavier) have traditional DWR but get good reviews based on brathability.

 

 

[John Papini]

Jeff – thanks for the clarification re: ZPacks and DWR.

Since my original post I’ve come across several lightweight jackets that actually don’t use DWR, including:

1. Northface Hyper Air (uses Gore Tex Active Shake Dry) around ~7 oz
2. Dynafit Ultra Goretex Shakedry Jacket (150g)
3. Gore Running has a number of sub 150g rain jackets with GoreTex Active Shakedry technology.

In addition to my questions above, would love to hear your thoughts about this GoreTex Active that doesn’t use DWR. Comparable weights to the above, wondering about performance.

[Jeff McWilliams]

I don’t own any jackets with the Shakedry tech from Gore so I can’t comment.  Maybe someone else can?

My understanding was that they were all similar to the Norvan SL.  i.e. good for running, but not durable enough to withstand things like extended shoulder strap abrasion from a backpack.

 

[Paul S.]

My understanding was that they were all similar to the Norvan SL.  i.e. good for running, but not durable enough to withstand things like extended shoulder strap abrasion from a backpack.

While they aren’t designed for it, ultralight loads aren’t much heavier than what a trail runner might carry.  Some folks have taken them on thru hikes without any major durability issues.  I’ve been using mine for a while but not enough miles with it to give a durability report.  I wouldn’t take it bushwhacking.  It’s a nicer feel and more breathable than my OutDry Ex Gold jacket but I’ve read the new Lightweight fabrics are a big improvement so if I was on the market today I would go with them.

[Link .]

The MEN’S OUTDRY™ EX FEATHERWEIGHT SHELL JACKET in blue is on sale for $118.90

[Ryan Smith]

I would also throw in a vote for one of the Outdry/ShakeDry variants. I’ve been wearing mine while trail running and it’s been great so far. Light, cheap and surprisingly durable. 100% waterproof and no garbage DWR to worry about.

Ryan

[Stumphges]

After using driducks for years and suffering the horrible durability, cuz it was the only wpb that didn’t need   DWR, I’ll be getting an outdry ex featherweight. It’s the first wpb worth buying if brush is ever gonna be in you way.

[Mark Verber]

I can confirm that the Norvan SL zipper leaks.  ArcTeryx knows and likely will address this in the later version. It’s the first jacket was I found actually breathable enough I can use for more than standing around. It’s spoiled me and re-ignited my hope that a backpacking appropriate jacket might hit the market that is sufficiently breathable. I have used it on-trail for long weekend backpacking trips, lots of done in a day trips and a fair number of trail runs.

Nothing on the market is “king” IMHO. Columbia OutDry Ex Featherweight at $120 seems like the best deal but it doesn’t match eVENT, much less Gore Shakedry when it comes to %naked feel.

Few more thoughts on rain-gear page.

 

[Hanz B]

I guess what I’ve learned recently is that wpb that use a dwr don’t breath once they wet out wear as more rain will never effect breathability in a permanent beading surface. So I’ve got a minimus 777 and a featherlight. I would take the minimus if I’m only expect summer showers. Anything in the 50s or 40s F, than I take the featherweight ex? Not sure but that’s what I’m doing. I know a lot of folks here if they think warm summer showers just wrap their shelter and rain gear togeather with like a mytrail co poncho tarp. So maybe that’s kind of the two you’d get the most range from: a featherweight and a pinch tarp. Ahh it’s a tough question.

One more thought – cuff adjusters, waist hem, and hood volume are crucial if you want to use your jacket to do anything else but backpack like bike and downhill ski.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

The PCT is general is pretty dry. Certainly Washington can get sloppy but when I thru-hiked in 2014 I wore my rain jacket for about 5 hours total that summer. So I’d heavily bias your choice towards something extremely light. I wouldn’t be that worried about breathability – especially if you aren’t also expecting it to double as a wind shirt.

[Tom Osborne]

I start out with technical t-shirt if it’s cold will put on my Houdini full zip(3.5oz) wind shirt and if needed my M10. Which serves as a shell for puffie.If it’s warm out then I just hike in the rain.

[Matt Smith]

I noticed you mentioned the m10 anorak, but have you looked into storm racer also by Patagonia?  It’s a 3 layer jacket and my XL weighs exactly 6oz.

I used a wind shirt and poncho/groundsheet combo for a few years including on the PCT, but wanted to switch to an actual rain  jacket. I also wanted something that was breathable enough to stop carrying the wind shirt.

Used it on the SHR, parts of Montana CDT and some backpacking in Olympic national park and love it!  Had it in some bad rain and kept me dry, but the majority of its use was as a wind block and extra warmth.

The only other ones on your list I have any experience with with are the novan SL and zpacks vertice.  I recommend the storm racer over those for backpacking.  Also easily found for under $200 and it looks nice too!

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

A quick comment on the DWR vs shake dry situation: Keep in mind that these “shake dry” jackets use basically the same membrane except it’s on the outside of the jacket (external), while the DWR jackets have the membrane inside of a woven nylon layer. So yeah when the membrane is on the inside you want a DWR to keep the nylon outside that dry too (if it gets saturated then it doesn’t breathe) but it’s not like the jacket itself is leaking water if the DWR wets out. The big upside of this construction style is that the jacket is far more durable since the membrane is protected. With the membrane on the outside (“shake dry”) it’s vulnerable to damage from whatever it encounters. But of course it’s super light.

I’m not opposed to the external membrane jackets but they are more of a niche item since they are low durability. Mostly I just want to make sure that folks understand that a DWR failure is not the same thing a membrane failure. I used to work in the warranty department and I’d see so many folks coming it with a DWR that is wetting out that were thinking their membrane was failing.

[Jeffs Eleven]

I like my Norvan (NOT Norvan SL)

Its like 7oz or something (I dont care anymore)  Trim fitted to accentuate the gut and fit without too many wrinkles under pack harness.  C-Knit seems to stay cool compare to other membrane jackets I’ve used.  I haven’t whacked much bush with it, but it doesn’t seem flimsy comparatively.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Yeah I really like the non-SL Norvan too. My wife used one thru-hiking last summer and I keep trying it on in the store.

[Ethan A.]

“DWR jackets have the membrane inside of a woven nylon layer…The big upside of this construction style is that the jacket is far more durable since the membrane is protected.”

This is the main reason I decided to stick with DWR jackets for now. Giving them an Atsko wash and DWR treatment once a season isn’t difficult.

The Norvan is made of the Gore C-knit material that the Montbell Storm Cruiser is made of – the Storm Cruiser just has a more durable nylon outer.

For anyone who has or has tried on a Norvan (not the SL), how far below your chin does the top of the chin material land when the hood is zipped up?

Arcteryx has another C-knit jacket with a bit more durable nylon – the Zeta LT. It’s roughly equivalent to the Montbell Storm Cruiser, but unlike the Montbell lacks pit zips.

For anyone interested, the Patagonia Storm Racer which is about the same weight as the Norvan has surprisingly long length for a 3 layer jacket that’s that light. New ones will be out for Spring ’19 in February. I have no idea how the proprietary Patagonia material compares with C-Knit.

 

[kevperro .]

I live and hike continually in the Washington which is the most likely spot you will need rain gear.   Most of the PCT the rain gear will remain in your pack.

If it were me I’d carry DryDucks.

[Anonymous]

I decided to combine the best of 4 worlds–mechanical venting, WPB, permanent (or nearly so) DWR, and tough/durable material.

Took a silnylon with (unusually) low HH, folded it up, ran it under a non threaded sewing machine with thinnest needle could find. Combined it with “Kite” 1443R Tyvek. Punctured silnylon is the outside fabric, Tyvek inside. Made simple poncho out of it.  And rather than make a hood, took a wide brimmed synthetic hat, sewed some soft velcro onto it, and cut a piece of highly water resistant EPIC fabric to size with corresponding velcro. Sun hat normally, rain hat when I need it.

Wouldn’t call the hat technically waterproof, but close. That could easily be improved with a different material or blend of materials (like the poncho body).

Still has the typical downsides of a poncho (but is not that flappy, because I used extra long stretch cord so that it can also tighten the waist area) , but it’s the most comfortable thing I’ve ever tried in warmish weather with rain. That, and the two materials will still bond with oils some, so once in a great while, it needs a good hot’ish washing with a highly alkaline substance to really clean it well.

It’s not perfect, but literally the most breathable, serious rain protection I’ve tried. If I remember correctly, it cost me around 30 dollars to make, and just a couple to a few hours of time. As far as sewing goes, it’s a very simple project.

I also like how it provides pack protection (I used a lighter and single layer of fabric for this part), and not including the little piece of fabric + velcro for the hat, weighs only around 5 oz. I would pit it’s air porosity and durability up against Columbia OutDry Ex Featherweight and expect it beat both hands down easily.

Course, you won’t look like mr. GQ walking down the trail.

[Mina Loomis]

I went round and round with this last year, thinking I would spring the funds to upgrade from FroggToggs/DriDucks and keep it as light as possible with more durability.  Consulted here, compared everything on the light-enough end of the spectrum, with admittedly more limited options than you because fewer models are made for women especially in the pants part.  Considered the options and the reviews, durability including especially reports in the reviews of how many years of use to wet-out, ended up with a new set of UL FroggToggs. YMMV.

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