Cooking Pots

You might be able to use them, it depends on how rule rigid your ranger is and if you can prove to him/her that your cooking method is at least as efficient as their method. One thing with the silicone based cookware and bowls that you will need to take into consideration is that once it’s used it retains smells and is then considered a smellable so it will need to go up in the bear bags. The more stuff you have to put in bear bags the bigger the pain in the butt. Also it’s not so much the extra pots to clean but you’ll have to carry extra stoves and fuel and you’ll spend more time trying sort out and measure your food to cook.
Before you spend a lot of time trying to find a better way to cook and possibly spend money on gear you might not be able to use I would really recommend going to the PASS class if it’s offered near you. After you see the Philmont cooking and cleaning method it’s really not that hard to follow.
Our crew took the 2 8 quart pots and they weren’t cumbersome at all. If your pack is big enough the pot will fit inside and then you can pack food into it so it really doesn’t take up much space.

Gary — 4L seems a little small for crew cooking your main meal — we had a crew of 9 last year and we took a 6L and a 4L.  The 4L was a troop pot and the 6L was a Philmont pot — both were lightweight aluminum (light enough) and worked well for us.  We boiled water and cooked main meals in the 6L and used the 4L for coffee/cocoa and dishwashing water.  I was concerned about the weight of Philmont pots before we got there, but they are really not heavy at all.  At least crew member should have a pack that can fit the large pot in main compartment or you can tie on the outside of any pack.  If you use the silicon 4L pots please post how it worked for you when you return (!)

I found the most important strategy to lighten the whole crew was to focus on the “big 3” / eliminate duplicate items / eliminate extra clothes (no one needs 5 shirts and 3 pants but some will try to bring!).

Hike on / Steve

Gary if you are able to fit all of your food in your pots and can demonstrate that to your Ranger then, depending on what your Ranger thinks, it’s likely that you would be able to use those pots. However, based off my experience with crews, you would not be able to fit all of your food into a single 4 quart pot. If you have an 8-person crew it’s possible to use a single pot. However, you will likely be maxing out the pot and it isn’t likely to work with any other size crew. If you are suggesting using two 4 quart pots to fill with food, then I suggest you just go with the 6 & 8 or 8 & * quart pots. With the 6 & 8 or 8 & 8 quart pots, you boil water in one pot and then add that water to the dry food in the other pot, which results in one clean pot and one dirty pot, as opposed to two dirty pots. By having one clean and one dirty pot you also have a rinse (clean) and wash (dirty) pot to use to clean your dishes. So if you’re going to only carry two 4 quart pots and fill both with food then you won’t have a clean pot to rinse your dishes in after cleaning them.

Looking at the reviews of those aluminum / silicon / clear plastic pots on Amazon, it seems a lot of people managed to mis-use them, some found defects out of the box, and others had problems develop over time.  I didn’t notice anyone out of a dozen reviews who said, “20 trips, no problems!” like you’d expect from a normal pot.

Interesting idea.  Maybe not ready for prime time.

I have never used them, so I wouldn’t know.
But I have used (and reviewed) other similar fold-up things, and they all came across as being someone’s very clever misuse of complex technology for the sake of the technology, and where something far simpler would be more effective and a lot cheaper. Just my 2c.

Cheers

I was tempted to buy something similar (silicone/metal teapot) but two things killed it…. 1) It was significantly heavier than a simple Al or Ti pot and 2) it couldn’t be used with a wood fire.

Even a JB pot can be used in a wood fire. It wouldn’t be pretty, but it could be done in a pinch. Not so with plastics.

Thanks everyone for the input.  I never thought about the smellable thing in a pot.  I was considering multiples of these, but it doesn;t sound like it is worth it.

This past year I went to Walmart and picked up two 8qt SS pots, they came in at a pound with the lid.  We built cozies for them which was the best thing ever!  Total cost was under $20.  By the time all the crew gear is spread out it is so minimal.  The silicone pots I looked at seemed to be heavy, especially the lid, in comparison, I would darn sure run multiple tests.

Found a picture of the pot in the coozie…..

Nice work on the pot cozy’s! That’s awesome!

IWGBTP!

-Wilson

Not to hijack the thread, but I’m wondering why Philmont insists that you rehydrate in a big pot.  It seems to me that if you use a big pot to boil the water, couldn’t you just rehydrate in your personal bowl/cup?  I am struggling to understand the logic.  Isn’t rehydrating in your bowl/cup basically the same as freezer bag cooking without the leftover trash?

I attended the Philmont Advisor Workshop (PAWS) last month and the instructors didn’t have a strong answer.

Teamwork?

I guess, but washing dishes sucks and I’d like to do a little of it as possible.  It seems unnecessary to boil water in one pot, rehydrate in a second pot and then eat out of individual bowls.  I hate the idea of carrying more than necessary and doing more than necessary.

Most of the meals are not an MRE type meal so they can’t be individually rehydrated. Many of them have a few ingredients, our favorite was the Stove Top Stuffing, Chicken, veggies and cranberries. There were also some rice based meals that have the flavor packets, those packets can’t be easily divided.

The idea behind the One-Pot Method is that it helps promote a greater group mentality and proper sanitation. By rehydrating in individual bowls the task and timing is split up between crew members which doesn’t encourage group members from staying together, e.g., splitting up during the rehydrating process to find somewhere comfortable to sit. Whereas in the One-Pot Method, the food is centralized so crew members are more likely to remain around the cooking area, promoting conversation and a greater sense of the group. Also the changing of the cooking duties allows all of the crew members to experience being in charge of the group’s food and making sure that it is properly hydrated, or cooked.

The One-Pot Method also promotes proper sanitation because by rehydrating in individual bowls, personal appetites are more difficult to account for as the food is generally split evenly among crew members. So if an individual were to have excess food, either another crew member would need to eat after that individual or the food would need to be thrown away. So if the food is eaten by a second person, then there is an increased risk of transmitting any germs or sickness, compared to scooping from a clean pot. However, with a single pot, food portions are scooped out evenly (first serving) and then generally according to appetites, so each individual only gets as much as they want or need to eat, which may not give everyone the same amount, but everyone is able to get what they need.

@tagiam if PASS is offered in your area, check it out. It is well worth the time and a well spent $25. Rangers go through the Philmont way for site set up, cooking, and other things that are helpful to know. Once you see theiron patrol cooking & clean up methodoing you’ll see it’seems really not that inconvenient .

And @witlain is spot on in his post.

Also, Philmont has been doing this for over 75 years. The methods that they use might not be what some are used to when they are on their own but one of the major ideas of a trek is teamwork and a sense of unity. Even for the adults.

It all sounds excessively armchair-based Politically Correct.
If you think trying to coerce kids of that age into teamwork and a sense of unity – you don’t know kids. There are a lot of things we used to do 75 years ago which now seem totally stupid – and today’s kids know it.

As for the ‘hygiene’ aspect of not letting boy B eat boy A’s leftovers – HA! Joke. The one place where I would come down heavy would be insisting that every boy washes his hands before any meal. That will eliminate most cases of gastro.

Cheers

@rcaffin not sure what kids you’re dealing with, but these are Boy Scouts on a Boy Scout trek so they are very familiar with Patrol Methods and coercion is not needed, just a clear explanation of the method and why it works. We were on a 12 day 110 mile trek at Philmont this past summer and followed their methods with no problems at all.

As for the “arm-chair Politically Correct” … 22,000 scouts went through Philmont last year, if everybody had their own methods there would be chaos. They set methods based on years of experience in their backcountry. It is their land, so it’s their rules and we teach our Scouts to respect the properties of others and the rules that go with being allowed on that property.

Yes, I know about Boy Scouts – I was one myself.
What does puzzle me is understanding what sort of chaos would be created if each group was allowed to use whatever method of cooking they were already used to – using a suitable stove of course.

Cheers

I think part of the issue has to do with how the meals are delivered, how trash is managed and stuff like that.

I totally get what you are saying though, Roger. My son does as well. He’s already done long through hikes (the JMT, when he was 12) and he has zero interest in doing a Philmont trek. He says he rather go hike for a couple weeks just the two of us in the Sierra. The Philmont Way seems to complicate what we already know how to do. It’s a different experience and we have chosen to not go.

Scouting is a wonderful organization for introducing kids to backpacking and the outdoors in general. But at the heart of the “Patrol Method” lies another intended result that goes back to the early days of scouting. We want people to learn to work together.

On my AT thru hike this year I witnessed many Universities, private schools and clubs do the same things that scouting has been doing for years. I camped with crews from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and several other Universities that were on a Freshman Orientation trip. To much chagrin of my fellow thru hikers we watched Ivy League students hang bear bags, start a stove, navigate, cook and clean up by delegating responsibility. I was not impressed with folks who were at the top of their class try to deal with other folks who came from the same situation handle the day to day tasks most hikers are used to.  There are egos and interests that stand in the way, but in the end the intention is to get people to work together and get the tasks done no matter how mundane or below their standard the tasks were. It was comical. I saw many private secondary schools from the DC area and private camps from Canada do the same thing by using Outward Bound instructors. All paid a very expensive monetary price for their experience.

I was very happy to see these expensive and exclusive institutions use the same methods we’ve taught for years for free. It is a vindication for an institution that has been under fire from so many factions within our community. I think the end result intended for Scouts is a person who’s worked through some tough human dynamics that will serve them for years to come. When you’re hot, cold, wet, tired and hurting the group dynamic as demonstrated by the “Patrol Method” will pull the group through. I would like to send our Congress and Senate on a Philmont expedition. Maybe we’d get some real working results?

It is very confusing to folks who are avid backpackers why we do what we do. Backpacking is a way of getting AWAY from being around a lot of people. BELIEVE ME I understand. But scouting introduces to many scouts their first taste of the outdoors and most kids want to be around other kids. So we take a bunch with us and let them teach each other to work well as a group.  Having some very exclusive and prestigious institutions mimic at least one of our methods only verifies our success.

We seem to have this conversation every year on this subject. After 2000 miles I can attest for its intended results as a casual observer. Its a good reason to just go with the flow. Use Philmont’s pots and their methods. When a crew finds its way to the intended camp, sets up a stove, delegates responsibilities and cooks their meal without an adult saying a word, you will know you’ve done a good job. The view to Spanish Peaks is just the gravy to a day well spent.

BK