Confused with layering for cold weather!

Get a ski parka, everybody and their Aunty wears ski parkas and they wear them almost everywhere. Buy one second hand so nobody can be bothered stealing it. Get a proper long raincoat, when it rains it really pours. Get a full weight fleece or a LW fleece and a good looking UL woolen/ cashmere jumper treated with Nikwax; these are your mid-layers around town and in the bush. I personally would not bother with a “soft-shell” but I would get a windshirt for sure and a LW pair of windpants too.

Sounds like a nice trip!

I find it a bit difficult to help you since I don’t know most of the clothing you propose and without knowing more of your route. But just to double check, you are not in Sweden or Norway during December and January are you? It will generally be much colder than -2C in most parts of the counties. Here is an map with average temperatures for January in Sweden (check 2010):

https://www.smhi.se/klimatdata/meteorologi/kartor/monYrTable.php?myn=1&par=tmp

Remember that the map shows average for the month, cold and warm spells for a few days are normal. Where I live, 100 km from Stockholm, January temperatures would normally vary from -25C to +5C. Sorry for giving you other info than you asked for…

Wow, still really helpful information! Thanks!! How do you deal with those temperatures?! It sounds crazy. I’m from the Balearic Islands, our winter ranges from 6ºC to 15ºC :)

The whole trip is going to be with my campervan. I will be in Iceland during September, as soon as I get back from Iceland I will drive from Denmark to Norway and I will drive all the way up from the south to the north, hoping to get to Nordkapp by the end of October (so the whole month in Norway). From there I will be driving back to Denmark through Sweeden, I don’t want it to take more than 2 weeks so back in Denmark by mid November and from there Denmark, Holland or whatever I feel like. So no December or January in Sweeden/Norway.

My plan is nature, as much nature as possible. I will be hiking most of the time, as much as possible, day hikes though. I will be mountain biking too and visiting the most interesting towns along the way. That’s why I need some help with the gear as I’m not used to cold weather. I don’t mind if it’s not the lightest gear but I want good stuff that keeps me warm, dry and breathes properly… too much? ehehe

Thanks!!

Feet, head and hands need as much attention or more that the bodies core.

Dealing with the cold is easy enough IF

You remember to keep the wind out, I would be advising a very LW synthetic layer against the skin with the Icebreaker over the top and a LW or UL windbreaker layer over that and a dressy shirt on top but shop around, some very dressy shirts come in Peached nylon that is windproof and can do double duty in town and in the bush.

When it drops to -20C it is starting to get very cold, boots needed and need to be big enough to wear at least 2 pair of socks without constricting the foot. LW gloves, then fingerless mitts them mittens then an over mitten. Same for the head, a good warm hat at all times plus a LW balaclave aor Finnish cowl for the extreme plus a good scarf.

None of these except the boots will weigh very much or take up too much room but you do have to think about the order in which you layer and make sure you can layer up EVERYTHING in your wardrobe, because the mid layers need to add up to over 20mm thick the outer layer will need to be at least a size larger than you think, which id why I said a ski parka, get a decent ski jacket or parka and it will have at least 5mm and preferable 10mm of insulation, get the raincoat big enough to go over everything else, get a hooded raincoat too if possible. Then pay attention to shedding the layers, venting etc when you warm up. Old advice was 5 layers for the torso and 3 layers for the legs, still good advice. UL polyester long shorts to cover the thighs under your pants but over the long johns add a lot of practical warmth for very little weight and bulk [ I use the cheap ones from Uniqlo] but you could simply buy cheap ski pants that come weatherproof and insulated and cut off the internal ski gaiters, I got mine from ALDI.

One of these layers can be a vest, for layering try and get a vest without a collar tho or cut it off.

My travelling raincoat is a LW cattlemans coat, silicon proofed poly/cotton because they look good oversized but still functional layered or not layered and waterproof enough and tough enough to do casual walking day trips with

Just add up the total thickness of you layers and make sure you have the ability to wear 50mm of clothing over all of you, foot to head and you will be OK when standing around usually

Buffalo NY in winter at -27C and I needed most of that when sightseeing, I wore nylon “Safari” style travel pants which were windproof with Polartec 100 fleece pants under them and no other layer but I carried a pair of LW goretex pullover pants in my daypack just in case, UL baselayer, dressy polyester / cotton shirt, Merino/Cashmere blend V-neck sweater, scarf in the same blend, a LW ski jacket with 10mm of polyester insulation and my overcoat

I wore a hat but had a LW beanie in my pocket, my normal winter leather boots and I carried fingerless mitts and mittens but usually just wore my LW ski glove liners

Hope that helps

I’m actually surprised that this forum doesn’t have an Ultimate Ultralite Travel wardrobe sub section

One small backpack suitcase that could take a traveller from 40C to – 40 C with only minor additions/subtractions and all with-in airline maximum of 19 kilos.

All-up including shelter and sleeping but of course no fuel for airline travel and it would have to include at least one dressy set for important dinners/dates/functions etc

Thanks Edward! I will read a couple of times more your suggestion so I can find the right gear for this trip.

Much appreciated!

Have a long Gore-tex (or other WPB) jacket for 28 F, windy, rainy

For some reason, people on this site don’t like WPB jackets because they’re not perfect, but they’re better than alternatives.

You have got a lot of good advise already, I will add a few things:

Given your schedule you don’t have to expect cold Nordic winter weather at -20C and colder. Given your campervan and day hikes, you can choose not to hike if it is a freakish cold day. So you don’t have to come prepared to hike in any condition the Nordic climate may throw at you. You are also in reasonably civilised (though not inexpensive) areas, so you can buy stuff you are missing. For the conditions I anticipate in Sweden and Norway I would use something this;

Innov-8 X-talon 200
wool socks, double wool socks if it is cold, wool socks and gore-tex socks if its cold and wet
gaiters can be nice in the fall (the traditional gore-tex ones)
synthetic pants
long johns when cold (not often for hiking during fall.)
synthetic or merino t-shirt with long sleeves
light fleece with zipper
uninsulated ski parka or wind shirt
down hoody for the breaks
fleece mitts and maybe waterproof outer mitts
fleece  or wool hat
fleece or wool buff
raingear (you will need rain pants, it can be windy in Iceland, Denmark and Norway. And sometimes Sweden.;)

I hope I remembered everything.

I don’t like insulated parkas for hiking but they can be very practical when you are in town.

The trick is start slightly cold so you are not getting to warm and sweaty when your metabolism gets started. Put on mitts, buff and wool hat when you start instead of an extra middle layer. Then you use mitts, buff, zippers and hat to easy regulate warmth as you move.

Here are some links to stores of the largest outdoor retailer in Sweden and Norway that could come in handy:

https://xxl.se/store-finder

https://xxl.no/store-finder

They don’t have the stuff discussed on this forum, but all the traditional stuff.

I thought I should also add this link

https://backpackinglight.com/lightweight-backpacking-in-the-winter/

For Iceland in September and certain parts of Norway in October or even winter (e.g. Lofoten) you should be prepared for high winds and wet precip. BRING HARDSHELL PANTS or you will be miserable in these conditions. I am someone who almost never wears rainpants but in Iceland they go on a lot even in summer. They don’t need to be heavy duty, even cheapo seam taped wind pants with ~3000 mmHg water resistance will probably be OK. But you will want something more substantial than softshell pants.

Other than that, long johns + softshell hiking trousers should be good enough but you may want to bring some insulated pants since you’ve got a camper and can afford to just bring them along in case. Most of the time just hiking trousers should be warm enough. But I cannot stress enough how important a really solid wind barrier for your legs can be.

I would not bother with a softshell jacket. You already have a fleece jacket + a windshirt.

For shoes…you may want to consider taking some WPB boots along with your trail runners. Iceland and parts of Scandinavia can be very boggy and wet in the autumn months. For backpacking in boggy conditions I generally prefer trail runners since WP boots eventually get soaked and never dry. But when day hiking, and with the opportunity to dry boots in a heated environment every day and clean/re-apply waterproofing periodically, WP boots can be more comfortable, and can be effective at keeping your feet dry when day hiking through bogs and marshland. Anyway, since you have a campervan to haul all your stuff I’d highly advise bringing both your trail runners and some recently cleaned and waterproofed boots so you have both options available. If you rely only on trail runners, bring some hydropel or similar balm for your feet at the end of each day since your feet will absolutely get pruned hiking in boggy terrain with trail runners all day. Gaiters won’t help at all with trail runners in boggys/marshy ground, although some lightweight gaiters may extend the ability of boots to keep your feet dry.

Something else to consider is that you may want/need to use microspikes or something similar. I don’t personally have great experiences with microspikes or crampons on trail runners but for some people it seems to work OK. The ground can be very icy in some of these places during autumn, even if there is not much snow. For shoulder season hiking in Lofoten I often needed microspikes to walk on ice.

I think you’re on the right track, but I would ditch the Arcteryx Gamma MX. It’s heavy, doesn’t compress well and is going to really jack up your layering system due to the size and weight. It’s also ridiculous expensive for no reason.

Replace it with a Black Diamond Alpine Start or Outdoor Research Ferrosi, wear either over a fleece and if you get cold throw a puffy over the whole kit. It will also simplify your gear since the Alpine Start is wind jacket and softshell rolled into one. They are also vastly lighter and pack down smaller

Also the Black Diamond deployment hybrid hoody, another item you want to rethink. Consider the Black Diamond First Light or Patagonia Nano Air instead, then throw a hardshell over the whole thing if the wind and wet get too brutal.

Hello!

Thank you guys, we have finally bought the gear! We have taken into consideration your recommendations and from there we have looked at the best deals. This is what we have so far:

First layer: IceBreaker Oasis and Tech Long Sleeve shirts (Merino wool)
Second layer/third layer: Patagonia R1, Black Diamond Deployment Hybrid Hoodie and Black Diamond Access LT (I wanted to get the Patagonia Nano Air but I got a ridiculous deal for both Black Diamond, two of them cheaper than the Nano).
Hardshell: Patagonia Houdini (wind shell) and Marmot Precip (rain jacket).
Pants: A pair of softshells pants, a cheap rain pant and some HH thermal leggings.
Socks: 6 pairs of wool socks (different thickness).
Shoes: Salomon X Ultra 2 GTX (These are shoes so I’m going to look at some boots too).

On the other hand I didn’t even think of microspikes, do you really think we will need them? It actually makes sense.

Thank you all guys!

The BD Access Hybrid LT is a great piece of kit. Good choice. Thermoregulates well, but is also quite warm. At 40gsm it also layers under well under more athletic cut jackets.

I always had one in the bag as an emergency layer for a couple of seasons, and only replaced it recently with the new and recent BD Access.

If you are open to another suggestion, I highly recommend Icebreaker Helix Fraser Peaks Jacket with a hood. It was my favorite piece this past winter with slim but very flexible fit and quilted merino wool fill for insulation. It’s functioned as an outer layer during light rain and snow; and, as a mid-layer for more inclement weather. Yes, wet wool does retain more warmth than down AND the care is easy being machine washable and air dry. I tried it on at an Icebreaker store in NY but ended up purchasing it via Amazon.co.uk. With this summer’s heat, it’s more affordable via eBay. I hope you get to travel on the Ring Road in Iceland.

I doubt that microspikes would get much use. I have some but I rarely use them even it they are in my backpack. I mostly don’t bother to put them on for a icy stretch. And at this time of year you should not walk on frozen lakes unless you are highly skilled in both assessing the ice and being able to rescue yourself if you go through it. (They will not help you when on snow.)

However there can be places and conditions when they are useful, so I think the best advise is to buy microspikes in Scandinavia if you really feel that they would help you given the weather and ground conditions you have at that time.

Regarding microspikes, it really depends on where you go and what you are hiking.

I was very glad to have them during a trip to Lofoten in March, where there were large sheets of ice going up a lot of the hills/mountains, and also a lot of frozen marshland with patches of ice and frozen puddles/tarns everywhere.

Elsewhere in scandinavia and in Iceland I have not generally found them as useful.

For your shoes, I’d definitely look at boots if you are going the GTX route or else just bring non waterproof trail runners.  Waterproof low-top hiking shoes will get immediately soaked in boggy conditions unless you pair them with gaiters, and it can be difficult getting gaiters to really work well in wet conditions with a low top hiking shoe. It’s also easy to end up in a situation where your pants dump water straight down the top of the shoe. Once wet they will be just as hard to dry as boots).