Confused on cold weather hiking layering

Assuming constantly well below freezing (my memory of winter in the whites) I would be tempted to swap a 3layer gore-tex shell with something a bit more breathable. I have memory of frost on the inside of gore-tex jacket.

You might be surprised by how little insulation you need when active: 1/4 the insulation when working hard as when you are standing around, and 1/8 the insulation compared to when you sleep (notes on insulation layer).

When shoeshoeing in “my” winter conditions (15-35F, winds 0-20mph) I have been happy using patagonia thermal weight hoody + windshirt, tee+r1+EPIC shell, light base+rab vapour rise shell, or a base+scholler dryskin jacket. When it got colder I layered on a montbell thermawrap worked (like your micro puff), and a heavy puffy for when I stopped. The key was not to add layer until I really needed the warmth and avoid overheating.

People who know the whites will have more insight into how much basic insulation you will likely need, and how much it changes during the day.

There are two areas of concern: active clothing and clothing when we are inactive.

When moving you want to try and stay warm and dry. As Mark said, you don’t need that much when active. What works varies among people. So we use a layering system that should be versatile enough to add and remove items as needed to stay warm and dry while active.

When we’re inactive such as during rest stops or in camp, then we often need to add an outer insulation layer. Down works well as we don’t want to use this outer insulation layer when active. We may have to remove a worn windshirt or rain shell and put it on top of our outer insulation in bad weather, so all these different possible combinations have to fit well in whatever order we wear them.

The theory is simple, practical application not so easy. I tried to capture the concepts in this post on my blog, with some examples. The particular items I use aren’t important or necessarily recommended, but how I mix and match items might help. Also keep in mind that I have lived in a desert for over 40 years and get much colder in winter snow conditions than most people. However, when moving my clothing may be similar to what others use.

Edit: I just looked at the link Mark provided. He also presents MET and clothing in inches and it looks pretty close to what I presented.

Now you know we are both old guys :-)

As others have said, the main thing is to stay warm and dry. If you start to sweat you are either working too hard (probably) or need to lose a layer. Much can be done with and without a hat.

When you stop, immediately get out a warm puffy, whether you put it on immediately or not.

Keeping you feet and hands warm is critical. Take some of those little heater packets just in case. If feet or hands start to get cold, add heat maybe in the form of hot drinks. It can be a bad idea to take warmth from your core.

The first sign of hypothermia is stupidity. Less obvious is that it is the last symptom to go away.

The Mt. Washington area is infamous for some of the most challenging and changeable weather conditions in the US. Consider an easier trip first.

I might take enough equipment to survive an unexpected white out and night out.

My very first experience of very cold weather [ -25C] I was totally over dressed and also very surprised that I was actually wearing exactly the same layers I wear here in an Australian snow trip at around -8C. Long john top and a windbreaker, but not my UL Montane windshirt; it was a heavier mesh lined track suit type top with room for layers underneath but most of the time it was unzipped and wide open.
What was different was needing wind resistant gloves and a much warmer head covering, my normal Nike running cap but plus a thick beanie but also an UL polyester balaclava under the cap.
What was inadequate was my footwear, my good mountaineering boots and Supergaiters; LW liner socks and a pair of boucle woollen ones; OK but not enough insulation under my feet, I had been warned about the cold sink factor but neglected to buy a better more insulating footbed and the bottoms of my feet did get cold.
Listening to advice tho I did have my warm layers right at the top of my pack to put on quickly when I stopped.

Yes, the difference between active and inactive wear is large. As was stated, about 1/4 of the insulation you need while just standing. Mark and Nick both have excellent advise, really no sense repeating it again. I use the same base layer as I always use (140-150merino wool) tops and bottoms. DO NOT add too much insulation to your legs while active. It is difficult to remove after a mile or so, and, your legs do not require large amounts of insulation. But, you need to adjust to conditions… Then a 200-300wt shirt, hat and gloves for consistent work (snowshoeing with a 45lbpack) and take it from there depending on temps/winds/precip.

The Adirondack Mountain Club recommends -20F sleeping bags and heavy winter tents.

As a former New Englander, the main thing I remember about the Whites is how fierce the winds can get up there, especially above treeline.  So be psychologically prepared for that.  Your kit looks good.  The only thing I might add is a more breathable parka.

Something I added to my winter kit last year is a fishnet top.  It packs a lot of warmth for the weight and really keeps your torso dry.  I was amazed at how well it works.  It’s something to try.

You will be fine, you have good options. Just plan a few shorter hikes first to test out your gear. Try a few different variations. People with experience can give you good ideas, but don’t take their opinion as gospel. In the end, everyone is different and you need to figure out what works for you.

Thanks everyone! I definitely got some great feedback and stocked up on some varied thickness Capilene base layers in addition to the Smart-wool heavier merino ones.

I’m definitely doing some easier hikes first and at most an easier 4K so no worries I’m not tackling the Presidential peaks just yet.

Philip does a good job in the NE corner of the US. https://sectionhiker.com/

Yes, I have followed his blog for some time now. I was actually reading all his articles on layering and winter gear last night . It was very helpful..

Many people have died in the Whites, on simple day hikes in the spring when cold winds from the northeast blow in. It is common knowledge amongst folks that hike the whites to always be prepared for a night out such as an emergency bivvy.
Good luck!

Agreed on too many layers when active. Sweat baaaaad :)

Seeing that you are in the NE, if you get a good cold day at home, that’s a great time to test. Put on a fleece and a wind shell and go for a jog or a brisk walk up a steep hill. Take a puffy with you for when you stop.

I like tights with windproof fronts and tall gaiters for snowshoeing. Add long johns to suit. Silkweight was enough for me. And good socks— you can layer them too.

Accessories do so much to make you comfortable and remove the perception of cold. When your extremities are cold, you might think it is colder. A beanie cap, neck gaiter/buff, good gloves and leg gaiters all help. Keeping your wrists and ankles warm helps with fingers and feet too.