Cold weather bag: Quilt vs Sleeping bag

[Shae S]

Hey all. I am wondering how everyone feels about using a quilt vs a sleeping bag when the weather gets towards single digits. Im wanting to get into winter camping this year in Colorado and am trying to see what some peoples experience has been. Right now im looking at a katabatic grenadier or a western mountaineering lynx. Look forward to hearing some insight

[Bruce Tolley]

So you are describing circumstances were the night time lows are less than 10 degrees Fahrenheit and you are sleeping on snow?  Your question is a bit hard to answer without knowing what your intended sleep system will be and whether you sleep hot or cold, are you currently using a quilt?

I currently use a quilt for three season camping but when the temperature drops to the low 20s, I feel the cold drafts when I toss and turn.  For winter snow camping in the Sierra Nevada by myself under MLD duomid tarp, I use a zero degree Mountain Hardware down bag.  I often begin the night using the down bag as a quilt but end up by 300am having it all zipped up.

Whether you buy a bag or quilt, you need to allow enough room to add additional layers in the night.

Many folks combine a summer weight down bag with a synthetic quilt to create their winter sleep system. This allows the perspiration that condenses on or in the bag during the night to condense in the synthetic quilt which can be more quickly dried out the next day.

 

[Shae S]

@btolley my bad man I should definitely clarify. Currently I use a UGQ bandit 20 degree quilt. Love the thing. I am thinking the weather I will be in is anywhere from low 20s to the single digits. I want flexibility with it though. I currently feel comfortable with my quilt at 30 degrees. Because money is a issue I’m trying to only get one more bag that covers a “wide array” of temperatures. So I want to say that I would only use this bag in super cold weather, but realistically I would use it for anything below 30. Having said that I want to be getting out in the Rocky Mountains in the dead of winter. It seems like the grenadier would be a good option due to its flexibility, however I haven’t heard much about it. And from reading about katabatic gears attachment system is seems to be good at keeping drafts out. Any advice I appreciate man, thank you!

[David P]

Personally I double up quilts in the winter. I like the modularity of having two bags that I can use instead of one very warm bag that I can only use in the cold. I don’t use down anything it’s all synthetic. Also under a Duomid! I use a enlightened equipment 20* enigma quilt inside  an EE 40* convert on the outside… I used this system down to -19* this winter, wearing a puffy coat and pants. Of course you need some good hoods and hats for your noggin at those temps in a quilt. I even wear my ski goggles to sleep to keep my eyeballs warm below zero… If you already have a 20* you might get by getting a 40-50* synthetic with a full zip. It will be MUCH less expensive than buying a 0* and more versatile in that you can use the 40-50 quilt in summer by itself or in conjunction with your current bag… Hope this helps!

[JCH]

Most everything David P said…Modularity is the key.

[Iago Vazquez]

What David P said. Only thing to add is to ensure you oversize the top quilt in both length and width. I also place my summer quilt over my three seasons. EE Enigma 20F & EE Revelation 40F

[Shae S]

@david-paradis @iago That’s Great stuff guys. So was your main incentive for doing a overquilt to control condensation, or just to save some money? Seems like a clever idea and hadn’t thought of that. Again i appreciate the time guys

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Shae

+ 1 to all the comments above. This past winter there was a long thread here on BPL in the winter forum about how to add two quilts of different ratings to create a winter system.

I would caution against spending a lot of money until 1) you know winter camping is your cup of tea and 2) you have figured out the right system for your shelter set up and environmental conditions. For 5+ years I was an assistant leader for the snow camping section of the local Sierra Club chapter. We took 80 to 100 backpackers out each year to learn snow camping.  Only 10 to 20% went on to continue snow camping so we always recommended frugality on getting gear for the first trip. IMO it is not so much the cold that puts people off as how every camping task goes much more slowly: setting up the shelter, tieing a knot, starting a stove.

The topic has not come up in this thread, but some folks like me also use an extra large water resistant breathable bivy (for example the MLD Superlight)  in winter under a MLD Duomid. it helps control some of the drafts and when you wake up in the morning, the frost is on the outside of the bivy rather than on you insulation. If you are sleeping in a tent, you probably don’t need a bivy.

One final comment, if you are camping under treeline, many people sleep warm in hammocks.

[Shae S]

@btolley Thanks so much man that’s very thorough. I want camping this past year in a snow storm and had the time of my life! I really appreciate your advice and it sounds like you have a ton of experience. After I went winter camping I even changed from a pump filter to a steripen. The cold definitely made everything more difficult, which in some strange way makes it more appealing.

[Bruce Tolley]

Sounds like you are well on your way to enjoying the 4th season.  If you want to learn how to build snow shelters, check out your local mountain club or Sierra Club chapters. They often offer workshops or overnight trips to to teach how to make snow caves, igloos etc.  A four or eight hour avalanche awareness class is also a good idea.

Cheers

Bruce

[Shae S]

@btolley great idea. Avalanches terrify me so that’s probably the smartest thing for me to do.

[Bruce Tolley]

@Shae your local avalanche report website and various online map tools will help you avoid risk of ending up in dangerous terrain.

In terms of objective risk, 99.9% of the time the most dangerous part of winter snow camping in the drive to the trailhead.

Cheers/Bruce

[Matt Dirksen]

For every conversation about sleeping bags, the exact same amount of attention “should” be given to one’s sleeping pad(s). (imho)

In winter, R-6 of ground insulation is probably the “minimum standard”. And if you use an air-only mattress, supplement it with a ccf pad.

Now we wait till the standardized R value testing methods come out… !

Best,

Matt

 

[Shae S]

@namelessway i agree. I have a exped mat that is good till 5 degrees F. I love the thing

[Brad Rogers]

I’m a bag guy for temps under 20*F.  I love quits above 20*F and sold my WM bags a decade ago to replace them with quilts, but I still held on to my MH Phantom 0 for colder temps.

[Shae S]

@mocs123 did you switch to bags because of the drafts?

[Iago Vazquez]

Sorry for the late reply. Financial is one of the pros undoubtedly. Biggest one probably. I found that when I started backpacking and camping people recommended having a 15F bag as a three season bag. For me it turned out to be 2 season. In the summer I simply cannot stand that much insulation. Neither did my wife and son. So the reality is that I had to buy a 40F bag anyway to cover three seasons for each of us. Those same two bags (15F and 40F, both down) get to cover my fourth.

Another is closet space. My wife and son also backpack. So when you have to find a place to store loosely 8 sleeping bags and two hammock underquilts for the three of us in the house, I’m happy I don’t have to store one more huge bag that gets used about 4 nights a year. My wife and son don’t winter camp.

Not to be overlooked in my opinion either is the purchase of one less item and the reduced environmental impact that this approach has.

The major con is a bit of extra weight from the additional shell material.

 

[Shae S]

@iago  I love that breakdown thank you so much man. This is another reason why I’ve been reluctant to make a purchase is also environmental impact. I want to make sure that whatever I get is something that I will be using for years and years. Again that’s a reason why I am on interested in buying anything synthetic. It seems like from the research I am doing it might work out well for me to get a katabatic gear  grenadier. It seems like with the horizontal baffles that they use that even with a warm quilt like a 5° one you could shift the down to the side and make it a little more manageable above that 5° temperature rating. Again this is just after doing research in my experience will probably be different but I am willing to take that risk for a quality product that I plan on using for many years.

[Brad Rogers]

Yes.  Drafts don’t bother me in warmer temps, but in single digits drafts are too much.

[Sam Farrington]

Re: ‘Because money is an issue I’m trying to only get one more bag that covers a “wide array” of temperatures.’

Great advice from Bruce T, because a bag that will keep you warm for 0-20 F will roast you in much 3 season weather. So as the posts show, most use a second bag or quilt for 0-20 F in the winter, either as an overbag, or another separate bag for winter use only. From those two options, an over bag would be less costly initially, especially if you could rent or borrow one. You could add a bivy cover if not using a tent, but a good one that will not condense inside might be costly.

Disagree re synthetics for winter, even for rainy 3-seasons use, due to their less warmth for weight than high quality down, and down’s wider temp range. WM bags are popular, but Montbell spiral down huggers are also high quality, less costly, and not confining. Have ‘restless leg syndrome,’ and have never felt confined in the Montbell.

Down bags do require more care – keeping them uncompressed except when actually trekking being the most important. The 20 oz #3 Montbell has lasted many years with good treatment. Use it like a quilt on the rare occasions when it’s hot at night in the mountains, bathe often, and sleep in a grid fleece top; so the bag does not get stinky and there is no need to wash it. It is totally warm at 30 F, unlike many heavier synthetics used before. It also has a very durable water repellent treatment, so does not easily soak through. https://backpackinglight.com/montbell_ul_super_spiral_down_hugger_3_bag_review/

Moreso than winter, heavy rain is always a threat to down in the 3 seasons, so the bag is packed in light plastic, and use double wall tents that don’t condense or get wet inside during pitch or entry/exit. Also carry about 20oz of puffies (top,bottom and booties) that ARE synthetic, take the bag down to 20 F, and are also used while cooking, eating etc. in camp when it’s too cold for just a fleece watchcap and top. Depending on how sensitive to cold you are, all of the above might be used with a medium or lower range down bag (10-30 F) in colder weather to extend its use down to 0 F. But you’d still need to have a second bag or quilt to cover 0-50F temp range.

[Shae S]

@scfhome the down hugger looks like a great bag. I hate the idea of sleeping in down garments and prefer long johns, i would rather just have a cold weather bag. Idk maybe I’m over analyzing it. I grew up out east and never had any warm clothing. So now when I think about getting cold I get upset and don’t want that to happen again hahaha

[Sam Farrington]

Shae,
OK, I added the BPL review to the post, and here’s the link for the present model that goes down to 0 F:
https://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=14004&p_id=2321160

They also have a -20 F to 0 F model (heavier and more expensive), and offer less expensive ‘burrow bags’:  https://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=14003&p_id=2321181
I don’t see any reviews of them on BPL, but probably there are on Google.

I got tired long ago from shivering all night, and that’s why I switched to down, not to mention the much lighter weight, although not so light in winter, especially as you sound sensitive to cold. But still think it makes a lot of sense to use puffy tops, bottoms and booties (that don’t have to be down), and that you would be carrying anyway in cold weather, to add to the warmth of a bag or quilt. It saves a considerable amount of weight.

Unless you are willing to purchase a used bag, which I would not be, you might have to choose between initially buying a less expensive winter bag, like a Burrow Bag, or going whole hog on a more expensive Montbell or other high quality down winter bag. As Bruce pointed out, that would not be very economical if you lose interest in winter treks due to cold, avalanche threats, or whatever. Hope this helps a bit with your decisions.

[Shae S]

@scfhome I have a montbell store pretty close to me so i will have to check this out. Again i am not opposed to a bag at all i think its a great idea. I think generally speaking for me i overheat really easily and get very anxious when that happens. So something that i can let air in with is ideal. I also would love to end up getting down pants and booties. Have looked at western mountaineering and feathered friends. Both of those companies are awesome.

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