Cold rainy hike, symptoms of early hypothermia, word of caution

Wind Chill Factor

+1 to:

“I think that a cold, snowy trip well below freezing is much more enjoyable than 30’s and 40’s wet misery.”

30’s wet weather combined with wind is unbearable. Extra pairs of dry socks and dry gloves help a lot.

One of my favorite pieces of gear has become a GoreTex Windstopper sleeveless pullover top. It only has the Windstopper on the front. I’ve worn it on cold, rainy days walking/hiking around here under a mid-weight merino top and a rainjacket. Works so well I’m going to try a crew of the same construction.

Interesting information, thanks, good experience

Must have been Ecola

Spot on Jerry!

Rain, low temps and windy is not a good mix…

That is when I am glad if I know how long to destination and to know that I’ll be able to have a hot drink within minutes of stopping.

Can’t see how the no stove brigade could possibly enjoy the outcome.

Sr Al,

What piece of gear/clothing would you bring next time on this trip if you could do it all over?

Good Question Chris Palmer.  Since I was completely dry, I don’t think Id bring any additional rain gear.  Maybe rain mitts would be perfect here, but I don’t own any so I can’t really say.  I left my gaiters at home accidentally, and they would’ve been great for the mud/rain.

In retrospect I would have brought my insulated soft-shell Columbia pants while hiking(under my rain pants).

I also would have brought my big puffy down jacket that I usually reserve for sub freezing camping to put on as soon as we got to the shelter.  I would’ve warmed up much quicker that way.

Was the trail mostly flat or downhill? I find that I can’t get my heart pumping and the heat flowing unless I have some uphill sections. Or if I run a bit I can get it going. Once I have my internal heat going I can usually sustain it if I walk quickly.

Last year in Montana near the end of a trip we has some cold wet weather and I got a bit chilly, not cold though, and had a hard time warming up. It was enough to make me slightly miserable.The trail followed a river and was mostly flat. Also I had not eaten as much as I should so I was low energy. I find a lack of food consumption is a huge factor in staying warm.

I recommend carrying a thick, fluffy fleece, polartec thermal pro is the best. It is the least effected by moisture and the long fibers wick moisture from your wet layers, acting as kind of a moisture sink. The idea is you can put it on over damp layers rather than removing layers to put on a down jacket which is very negatively effected by moisture.

Sr Al,

Since you were mostly dry but still getting colder, I suspect you needed more insulation while you were hiking. I might have added gloves or mittens to keep my hands dry, and a thick fleece top, rather than pants, because I can overheat quickly in warm pants. Keeping down dry for the shelter is a good idea, but not if you can’t stay warm enough to get there.

Having made close friends with hypothermia on too many occasions, I don’t wait to warm up any more. As soon as early signs show up, I put on more clothing, or stop and seek shelter. Warm food and drink provides more psychological warmth than real warmth in the short run, so I reserve those for after I’m starting to warm up from other efforts. Dehydration and hunger can shut down my internal fires, so I keep up my water and food intake, too.

YMMV.

— Rex

Justin, trail most difficult and mostly uphill with some flat parts.  To add some spice it was muddy with lots of fallen trees and we had to maneuver around a giant landslide as well.  I was counting on the uphill to warm me up… it just didn’t.  Also, I mentioned the down puffy to use inside the shelter, not while hiking.  I was totally dry by the time I got to the shelter, except for my hands and wrists basically.  No moisture problems luckily!

I think bringing another layer in the form of a fleece is good idea as both Justin and Rex suggested.  Believe it or not I don’t own one, I usually just use a thick wool sweater.  Great point about the jacket Rex, its not worth much if I won’t be warm enough to complete the hike!

Eating on the trail would have helped stoke your furnace. Something like Trader Joe’s Fig Bars that has enough carbs but not a lot of pure sugar. It metabolizes more slowly for a longer energy “fire”.

And even though it’s raining and you may not feel thirsty keeping hydrated helps your metabolism stay up.

But yeah, A pair of rain mitts would have helped a lot – with light fleece gloves under them.

People don’t realize how it does not have to be below freezing to get hypothermia. Like another post said I would much rather be below freezing on a trip verses a cold windy rainy day.

Agree with much of what has been said here.

Cold wind + cold rain => wind chill – dangerous and insidious
Much colder snow and dry – often enjoyable.

Rain mitts – very valuable under such conditions, and recommended.

More food while walking, more fuel! Very much so under those conditions.

Behind all that: knowing what your body will or can do, and when to stop before it is too late. That is experience, and there is no short cut for that.

Cheers

This thread is very interesting to me because of the forecast for this weekend. I’m planning on backpacking ~18 miles Saturday/Sunday this weekend and the forecast is currently calling for less than 1 inch of snow early Saturday morning followed by a 50% chance of rain and lightning until midnight Saturday night. Winds should are forecast for 10-12mph. High temp is 44°, low Saturday night will be right at 32°.

Here is what I am planning on taking for clothing. Does this sound adequate?

• Railriders pants
• Thin polyester hoodie
• TNF TKA 1/4 zip fleece
• Packa rain jacket
• Rain Skirt
• Meshy trail runners
• Thinnish wool socks
• Thin wool liner gloves
• Rain mitts
• Merino buff
• For sleeping/camp I’ll bring 150 weight merino long johns for at night and a Montbell Ex Light Anorak for camp/sleeping. I could also bring down booties.

Does that sound like reasonable amount of insulation/clothing? I’m a desert hiker from Phoenix so I am not used to these conditions.

Matthew, I would wear thick wool socks. As thick as you can fit in your shoes. That will really help for warmth and comfort. Thin socks will dry quickly in warmer weather but in colder weather if your feet are cold they won’t dry out, thick wool socks will insulate well when wet and allow them to dry out. Even if they dont completely dry out they will push moisture away from your skin by body heat and wicking to give you a drier microclimate next to skin. If you are kicking up light snow your feet would get especially cold in thin socks.

Other than that your list looks safe and conservative for those conditions.

Excellent. Thanks for the feedback!

Just reading that story made me cold! Needing rain gear + a poncho sounds miserably wet.  Glad you made it safely!

I just started investing in VBL gear from RBH designs. My Cuben VBL quilt has been so successful in warming me up (and I’m a SUPER COLD sleeper) that I’m looking at covering myself in VBL from head to toe on upcoming cold hikes. I’m in the PNW, and I’ve been avoiding winter and rainy spring hikes because of my difficulty with thermoregulating, but now it might actually be possible!

I’m looking at covering myself in VBL from head to toe on upcoming cold hikes. 
Bad, bad, bad idea.
What will happen is one of two things:
The cold air outside will make your perspiration condense inside the VBL and turn into ice, or
You will overheat badly and sweat and get wet inside the VBL.

VBL while travelling is not a good idea. You are working, and you are perspiring. Even in the Antarctic they generally don’t use it. VBL while sleeping is OK if it is below -20 C (typical).

To be a bit harsh – that is a typical novice mistake.

Cheers

Roger, thanks for the advice! If you have time, could you clarify? I’ve been reading back on a lot of posts about people who did this successfully. So far my understanding is to vent when you start feeling moisture, to slow your pace prior to camp to allow any inside moisture to dry, to either where it next to skin or with a light mesh baselayer like Brynje apparel underneath, to avoid layering over it too much so as not to overheat, and–once you’ve fine tuned the system and learned to vent adequately–wear the VBL system as much as possible. Considering I’ve been able to take my overstuffed 0° Cuben quilt up to 40°ish and be comfortable with adequate venting, I am hopeful the same will apply to VBL apparel in 0°-30° (This also makes me believe my Cuben quilt alone will only take me to about 20°, so a VBL top, socks, and gloves to sleep in might help me with even colder weather).  With these tips in mind, do you still think it would be a bad idea?

I’ve tested out MYOG “bread bag” socks and jacket (using isolation gowns underneath my scrubs! :D ) while actively moving at work and it’s helped me with warmth considerably. Like I said, I run unusually cold, so my worry with lots of layers is I’ll constrict circulation to the extremities and get colder (a mistake I’ve already made a few too many times), too few layers and I’ll be too cold to function, and with multiple layers I’ll have a harder time venting and therefore sweat through my layers. Wouldn’t one layer of easily ventable VBL keep me warmer than multiple layers of breathable clothes AND prevent any of my other layers from getting wet from sweat? I certainly plan to test out the VBL gear on strenuous day hikes prior to taking it on any winter backpacking trips, and my backpacking trips will not be very “deep” in the backcountry (plus I’ll be with friends who are much more experienced in winter backpacking), so I plan to be as safe as possible.

sorry to hijack the thread, Sr Al! Roger, if you’d like to further impart wisdom via PM, I’m okay with that! :)

Hi Bri

Forgive me if I go slightly sideways. Soapbox time.

If you have a bit of clothing on and its really cold, you may still be OK if there is no wind and no rain. Just keep working and you will stay warm down to very low temps – while you are working. That’s from experience.

If there is wind the scene changes. Step 1 (or maybe Step 0) is to block the wind. This is absolute. I can have a thick fleece on in the snow and be freezing cold because the wind is moving all my nice warm air out of the fleece. Stick a very light windshirt over the top to block the wind and I am fine. Actually, I usually wear a UL MYOG EPIC jacket over a light fleece in the snow. Snow-shedding, not water-shedding, but wind-blocking. And maintain the blood flow to hands and feet at all costs! Even a watch band can have a bad result in the snow.

If it is raining in the snow or around 0 C (happens …) then you have a far more serious problem. Any clothing which gets wet instantaneously becomes a huge heat sink, and you feel it! Imho, rain at 0C is about as hard as it gets. For these conditions we wear a silnylon poncho with hood – not a jacket at all. Why?

That rain is ice cold, and it will chill the jacket fabric. Any sweat is going to condense on the inside and wet your clothing. Sleeves and your back are prime targets for this. Gore lie in their teeth: their fabric will NOT keep you dry under those conditions! Practical experience tells us this. OK, if you are a TV presenter just standing their in front of a camera, fine, but you are not working/sweating.

A poncho does several very nice things, starting with deflecting all that ice-cold rain. OK, the poncho fabric gets cold, but we don’t put our arms in the sleeves: we cross them in front inside the poncho (warm arms), and the poncho goes OVER the pack so there is no ice-cold water running down between you and your pack. In short, your core can stay quite warm. Yes, there will be some condensation, but not all that much. You flap around, adjusting the ventilation in small amounts, and make damn sure you do not heat up to the point of sweating.

Normally I keep my Oz cabbage hat on under the hood: more insulating air space and ventilation. Keeps the rather cold silnylon off the back of my neck too. Much nicer.

It was bucketing down and there was snow on the ground in the LH photo. (There was ice water underfoot too…) Sue had her Taslan shirt on under the poncho. It was blowing and snowing in the RH photo: Sue had her Taslan shirt on and possibly a light thermal layer as well, as we had stopped for morning tea just before this. I should add that Sue uses the sleeves more than I do, especially when using an axe or a ski pole, but keeping her core warm enough works OK for her.

So I am biased against the use of a VBL while walking. A bad idea imho.

Sleeping is another matter. If you deliberately sleep a bit cool you will be losing very little perspiration, and a VBL can work fine there. Keeps the down dry too.

Dunno whether this answers your questions completely.

Cheers

Roger,

The RBH NTS shirt and pants are windproof, so that should be sufficient for warmth in wind. Regarding freezing rain, I hope to avoid it at all costs! :) But of course one should always be prepared. If I anticipate it, I might take advice from the OP and bring rain gear and my poncho! I have a ZPacks Cuben poncho/groundsheet that I swim in, so it should keep most of me dry on wet hikes. I don’t anticipate the VBL layers getting me soaked from sweat because I intend to vent before I get to that point. I’m still researching the world of VBL, but isn’t the point of VBL to reduce evaporative heat loss and to create your own microclimate under the non-breathable layer? When the microclimate gets too warm (and thus clammy), you vent and let cool air in to evaporate the sweat, right? Considering how cold I get, I don’t imagine I’ll require much venting in weather similar to that of the pictures you posted. Since this will be my first winter backpacking, I intend to only go out when weather looks nice. :)

I found an XS VaprThrm NTS Shirt and Pants on eBay for super cheap, so I’m planning on testing it out while sleeping right now, and then while hiking once it starts getting cooler here in Southern Oregon. I’m not entirely sure I want to do VBL for both top and bottom, but I definitely plan to do it for hands and feet!

isn’t the point of VBL to reduce evaporative heat loss and to create your own microclimate under the non-breathable layer?

Basically, no.

As the name implies, VBL is meant to be a barrier against water vapour getting into the insulating layers outside the VBL. That is not to say it hasn’t been misunderstood and misused by some: it has indeed. But if it was really effective as an insulating layer for cold weather it would have taken over from fleece and down a long time ago. It has not.

But … try it out for yourself.

Cheers