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Climashield Apex isn’t used much at all in commercial products?


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Home Forums Gear Forums Gear (General) Climashield Apex isn’t used much at all in commercial products?

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  • #3747420
    Johan
    BPL Member

    @johan-river

    Locale: Cascadia

    I’ve been making my own gear for a few years now, and most of that is just messing around with experimental designs. I’ve ordered quite a few cuts of Climashield Apex in various weights from 2.5-5 ozy.

    One thing that always stands out, is how wildly inconsistent this insulation is. You can order a 4 yard length of 2.5 and some areas will be about the weight of 1 ozy, while other areas are over 4 ozy. When making a jacket or pants or a sleeping bag, it’s literally impossible to make it with a consistent material thickness across the whole item. Just. Not. Possible.

    If you do try to make it all even, it takes a ridiculous amount of wasted insulation to get cuts that are decent.

    So, my question is, why do they sell Apex in such a terrible and difficult state to work with? Do they not consider this to be a viable product for commercial uses?

    Enlightened Equipment uses it in many products. I wonder if they somehow mitigate the problems of Apex thickness varying so much from section to section?

    It’s sort of frustrating because the core engineering of Apex is brilliant. The wavy continuous fibers are great at what they do, but the way they make that into sheets of Apex leaves huge areas of overlap and even areas where it has been pulled super thin. There really has to be a better way to construct Apex.

    #3747427
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    Yeah, I’ve noticed the variation from place to place.  Worse in lower weights.

    I usually discard about 25% of the material to avoid thin places.

    I just made a vest out of 5 oz/yd2 and didn’t have to discard hardly any of it.

    #3747432
    Johan
    BPL Member

    @johan-river

    Locale: Cascadia

    True. The thicker stuff is more consistent. Which makes me wonder how EE gets away with using 2 ozy.

    I’ve had some 3.6 that is just as thick as my 5 and some 3.6 that is just as thin as 2.5.

    I think this may be a large reason why it isn’t used in a wide array of mainstream products, even though it is very high performance. I haven’t used Primaloft stuff, but it looks like it is vastly more consistent than Apex, and maybe why I see it used on quite a few products.

    #3747440
    Rex Sanders
    BPL Member

    @rex

    Has anyone checked how consistent EE’s Climashield Apex is in quilts, jackets, etc.? Even a bright light or sunlight behind can reveal a lot.

    If consistent, maybe they buy enough to use thicker sections in products that need it, and use thinner chunks elsewhere.

    — Rex

    #3747520
    Sam Farrington
    BPL Member

    @scfhome

    Locale: Chocorua NH, USA

    It might be worth looking into other brands.  A number of new ones were discussed on a recent BPL thread.

    At one time, OWF sole Thinsulate Liteloft, and I bought a lot for the next synthetic bag.  But I got woo’d away to Down by BPL’s evaluations of Montbell spiral down bags.  Bought one, and it weighed only 20 oz and was much warmer than any of the many synthetics I’d used.  Haven’t used anything else since, and take super care of it.

     

    #3747557
    Bruce Tolley
    BPL Member

    @btolley

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Mountain Laurel Designs has been using it for years. Looking at my Spirit Quilt, it seems pretty even.

    Cheers!

    #3747624
    Rex Sanders
    BPL Member

    @rex

    Well made Climashield Apex jackets are not as “stylish” as jackets requiring quilting, according to at least one reviewer I can’t recall.

    And yet un-quilted Apex jackets are usually warmer and more wind-resistant for the weight.

    Major brands often value style over function.

    — Rex

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