Check my rain gear philosophy

[Joey G]

If you get wet from rain or sweat, the main issues is discomfort and if your body temperature drops because of wind / cold.

So if it’s warm, the second part ( low body temperature) isn’t an issue. You’ll just be uncomfortable. So, in warmer weather, how much does rain gear really matter?

In cold weather, your rain gear becomes a wet suit. So you want higher denier to protect you from cold / wind. It would be great if you stay dry, but that’s a variable. You could get wet from sweating or rain.

Two yeas ago I had a day that was 10 hours wearing rain gear in constant rain. I was wearing the Arcteryx Beta SL and Patty Torrentshell pants. This was Yellowstone NP and temps were in the 40’s. My cloths were soaked by the time I got to camp. Most likely from sweating. I think the gear did as good of a job as it could. It protected my body temperature from lowering.

So, my opinion is you want higher denier from cooler / windy weather and if it’s warmer do whatever. I guess you could just get away with anything that could block wind since that could be an issue if the temps drop a little during the rain.

Is this the correct way to look at rain gear?

[Brad W]

I agree with the more robust rain gear in cold temps. I use Torrentshell 3L pants/jacket in winter in PNW. I can hike all day without getting wet when temps are 50’s or below, using vents.

How warm is warm to you? 80F?

[Joey G]

I don’t really think I’ve ever backpacked with a high above 65. I think 70s would be warm.

[Terran]

If it’s warm, take your shirt off to keep it dry.

[Brad W]

Unless it’s very warm-85F+, I prefer not to get rained on. UL rain jacket at least for me or my Kor Airshell. More annoying is driving rain in the face, which is a different issue.

[Robert Spencer]

Your approach generally makes sense to me, and your expectations are reasonable (ie, we are never totally dry). 3L garments work best in cold and wet environments when you are trying to stay somewhat dry or at least safe and are willing to take the weight penalty, and 2.5L garments work best when temps are higher and the goal is to maintain some level of breathability with a lighter option.

Bill’s recent article spoke to this subject very well.

[David D]

Curious, why would a 3L be better in cold weather?

2.5L drawbacks are lack of comfort liner that would help avoid clamminess and the embossed inner can get contaminated by body oils.  Both issues are reduced to negligible levels over a base layer in winter.  3L is more durable but a rain shell is rarely needed in winter

Genuinely curiously as I use a 2.5L with pit zips, which has the benefits of lower weight and packed volume (which is at a premium in winter) and typically lower cost

[Roger Caffin]

a rain shell is rarely needed in winter
Amusing, but totally wrong.
Granted some areas may have little rain in winter, but as we all know, other areas can be very wet.
Last winter we were sometimes getting 2″ (50 mm) of rain in a day.

Cheers

[David D]

Well, there’s winter (calendar) and then there’s real winter.

But I get the (harshly put) point, 3L has a durability and comfort advantage in wet (cough) “cold” weather

But I still challenge the concept that 2.5L advantage is only at temps warmer than this

[Bill Budney]

It doesn’t make sense to rigidly say that 2.5L does this and 3L does that. There are too many variables in the fabrics. One of the lightest WPB fabrics we have had recently was 3L (EE Visp).

But, sure, warmer and more waterproof shells make sense for cold weather, while lighter and more breathable materials make sense for warmer weather.

Above room temperature, just getting wet can be the best way to stay cool while active.

Umbrella hat is my favorite in light wind.

All rain gear sucks in some way. ;)

[Roger Caffin]

Rule 1 for rainy weather:
You are going to get wet.

Forget the PR from Gore: it only applies o news reporters and traffic police, and only for a little while
You are going to get wet.

Proof? How about noting that we all DO get wet in the field?
Cheers

[David D]

I wear a poncho down to almost freezing (except in the following cases) and don’t get wet (not that you’re “totally wrong“…)

Only use a rain jacket in exposed areas when wind chill is an issue, or if I know theres a lot of tight bushwhacking, or when its snowing.  And yes, agree rain jackets suck!

[Roger Caffin]

Like this? Even with a lot of wind.

Tour Du Mont Blanc, mid-SUMMER, going up to Col De Croix du Bonhomme

Cheers

[Terran]

(cough) “cold” weather

(cough) “hot” weather

[Joey G]

Roger, I’m planning n doing TMB in 2027. That image is concerning. I’m hoping that image was like June-ish.

[Jerry Adams]

I do a lot of hiking in the rain in the PNW

Some WPB is better, some worse

If it’s warm, like over 40F, wearing a base layer and a jacket, any jacket, I’ll sweat even if it’s not raining

One strategy is to wear as little as possible, like a thin nylon base layer, and even if it gets wet it will dry pretty quickly when you get out of the rain.  If it’s cold, I’ll put on my synthetic vest and/or a jacket over the wet shirt which will dry off after a while.

[Bob Shuff]

Ryan talked about the benefits of a sturdier or maybe stiffer shell jacket in his latest Podcast about cold weather “storm” hiking. He referenced the Beta SL as his example, but clearly this is still a lightweight jacket when compared to GTX pro gear. I don’t get out much in cold wet weather, but want to expand my horizons to do so in the future.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Joey

Photo taken June 2007
The message here is that snow is possible anywhere and anytime in alpine regions. Do NOT count on sunshine!

TMB: there is a Refuge Les Motets S of the Col, a converted cow farm. It was wonderful. Huge meals. Hum – 18 years ago! Wonder what it is like today?

Cheers

[Haakon R]

Ryan talked about the benefits of a sturdier or maybe stiffer shell jacket in his latest Podcast about cold weather “storm” hiking. He referenced the Beta SL as his example, but clearly this is still a lightweight jacket when compared to GTX pro gear. I don’t get out much in cold wet weather, but want to expand my horizons to do so in the future.

Haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but this aligns with my experience as well.

I use heavier shells in the cold season for a couple of reasons. Partly because the stiffer materials wont cling to my body as much in strong winds, and as such allow some air between my body and the shell, whether it’s just the air layer itself or allowing a mid layer to loft more in serious cold, in either case heat loss to conduction is significantly reduced compared to thin, superlight shell layers that hug my body like cling film in strong winds.

Heavier shells typically also have better, sturdier hoods with better coverage and more adjustments. In strong, cold winds this can be the most crucial feature of my shell layer. Especially if there’s precipitation in the air, that would otherwise hit my face with force and create serious discomfort.

Less common in later years, but some heavier shells, designed for harsh weather, has a redundant method of closure. Typically in the form of a storm flap with button or velcro closure. A very welcome safety feature in case the main zip fails.

Even in very cold weather, way below freezing, I mostly use WPBs. They are typically (much) stiffer and have better wind resistance than similar weight garments without a membrane, which adds up to the least heat loss to both conduction as well as convection.
In addition WPBs dry pretty easily and provide peace of mind in case the weather changes and I’m subjected to wet precipitation.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Joey,

that photo of Roger could mirror my own experience on the TMB (in 2003 or so). Only, it was then at least july (and maybe august).

[Tom D.]

I gave up on the “breathable” material and ordered a Rock Front Hoodie from Ukraine. It might take a while to get here being the situation over there, but the zippers and ventilation options intrigue me.

[Bill Budney]

3FUL recently added a front zippered version of their sleeved poncho. At $38 it is the most budget friendly clone of Roger’s famous mountain poncho. <8 ounces/220 g.

https://3fulgear.com/product/accessories/ultralight-tarp-poncho/

[Roger Caffin]

After that comment I just had to go and look for myself.
Yup – almost a dead copy of my design. A slight difference in the cord around the hood.
Well, they do say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Cheers

[Eli]

I have resigned myself to mid tier gear (Patagonia Torrentshell Rain Suit) for mid tier performance on basically every trip.

On the up side, it’s simple to pack for trips year round, even if I end up sometimes feeling that I’m carrying excessively heavy shells in the summer or don’t have enough pockets in the winter.

[AK Granola]

There’s also just “holing up” until a storm passes, if you haven’t got a heavy enough rain shell to handle the cold wet conditions. Cold meaning 40F or below. I can get very cold with cold rain (or hail!) hitting my rain jacket if it’s thin, even if I’m moving, and even if I’m mostly dry. But I really like my Zpacks vertice for warm weather rain, as I’ve experienced in the Sierra. I’ve stayed totally dry in that, even when hiking (not too steep terrain).

More and more, I feel like waiting things out is a really good strategy in a lot of cases. Patience until the storm passes. No one likes to wait though.

[Author]

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