cheap butane canisters

[Jerry Adams]

Fred Meyer doesn’t carry the Max Burton or Max Performance canisters anymore – $4 for 8 ounces.  Too bad, because they worked down to 28F or even colder so they must have been isobutane.  Maybe they’ll get them again.

Now, Freddie’s has $6 for 8 ounces for Brunton (?)

REI has Giga Power $5.50 for 8 ounces

REI has MSR and some other brand, $10 for 16 ounces so that’s $5 for 8 ounces but you need a “G-works Gas Saver R1 Cartridge Exchanger Anodize Duralumin” from amazon.com (credit to Bob Mulder) for $26 to transfer to a smaller canister.  That works pretty good.  Just weigh the donee canister to make sure it’s not over-filled.  Put it in freezer before hand.

Freddie’s has 8 ounces of butane for $4 but you need a “SOLO MTN Butane Gas Refill Canister Filling Adapter” for $20 to transfer to a canister.  I assume that’s only going to work at warm temperatures.

[Hikin’ Jim]

I’ve used the 100% butane cylindrical canisters before.  They’re cheap, sometimes as little as $1 for 8 oz/220 g, but it’s often a hassle to refill from them.  Depending on the brand, you can’t just hook them up and up end them and have the liquid fuel drain into the canister you are refilling.  There’s an internal assembly on some brands to prevent such flow.

The G works adapter you mentioned looks like it would be a lot easier to use.  Buy the 16 oz/450 g canisters and refill your 4 oz/110g size canisters four times.  You’d have to be very careful not to over fill.  Over filling could cause a canister to burst.

HJ

[David Thomas]

Those cheap, tall, skinny (presumably 100%) butane cylinders are used in table-top cookstove like this:

Which is more common in Asian cooking and households.  I’ve had good luck finding them in Asian food markets and discount stores.

I’ve had good luck with the adaptors for Lindal valves (BPing butane canisters), 1-pound propane cylinders, and bulk propane cylinders.  Some of the adaptors for those cheap butane cylinders OTOH have gotten stuck or leak a lot when making/breaking the connection.

[Jerry Adams]

I bought “Sterno” brand from Fred Meyers.  It says it contains butane and propane but doesn’t talk about ratios of N, iso, and propane.  I’ll have to go to a Korean grocery and see if they have cheaper ones (with Korean characters on the side).

Since it’s intended for household use, there’s no reason for it to contain anything but n-butane.  But, I think that it’s sort of a “waste product” from the refining process so the ratio is arbitrary.

I tried it at 47 F.  No problem.  Boiled a pint in 2:45.  When it gets near the lowest operating point for the fuel, it’ll run normally for a while, then cool from evaporative cooling to a critical point and slow way down.  This didn’t happen with the Sterno fuel.  I bet this will work down to 40 F or less.

Some day soon it’ll get colder, like below freezing, and I’ll get a better test.

I acknowledge this is all a techno geeky way to amuse myself and if I just wanted to boil water, I’d buy whatever canister was for sale at wherever I happened to go.

It is a solution to the part full canister though.  If I was going for a 4 day trip, I could just put 4 ounces into the canister.  I wouldn’t have to take an extra few ounces with a full canister.  And no mostly empty canisters to deal with.

I found it easy to transfer the fuel.  It takes many seconds to transfer and I could guess how much was transferred just by shaking both donor and donee,  Then, detach and weigh it to make sure I got the exact amount transferred, and make sure I didn’t overfill.

 

[Hikin’ Jim]

Do you have a photo of the refiller you’re using?

HJ

[Jerry Adams]

 

[Jerry Adams]

https://rbnenergy.com/you-can-just-iso-my-butane-isobutane-and-isomerization

Bulk isobutane is $2/gallon.  That would be about $0.20 for 8 ounces.  N butane is usally a little cheaper.

It’s used in gasoline for cars.  “Exotic” uses like for propellant in aerosol cans or refrigerant gas.  Fuel for backpackers.is so “exotic” they don’t mention it.

Crude oil includes propane, n butane, and isobutane.  They take advantage of different boiling temperatures to separate them.  The fractions out of the tower contain different ratios, they don’t normally get pure isobutane or n butane or whatever.  Different crude has different ratios.

They can convert n butane to isobutane through a isomeration process which is maybe $0.05 per gallon.

I wonder if I can buy a cylinder of bulk isobutane?

[Jerry Adams]

googling “bulk isobutane” takes me to adventuresinstoving which I clicked on and post here http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/03/canister-refiller-warning.html just to improve Jim’s search engine results : )

I don’t think this will be fruitful.  Someone on the internets was complaining you can’t buy butane in bulk like propane in the U.S. but you can in other countries

I’ve read butane can be used to extract THC from marijuana, but have no personal experience or interest : )

[Hikin’ Jim]

Interesting rig.  I guess it works by vapor pressure alone?  Or do you set the donor canister up higher and let gravity drain the liquid fuel?

On mine, the donor canister mounts atop the receiving canister, letting gravity do the work… supposedly.  With some brands, I come back in a couple of hours, and the gas has drained into the recipient canister.  With other brands, it doesn’t drain.

HJ

[Roger Caffin]

WARNING

Cheap canisters usually means they have been filled in China. My experience with those canisters is that they contain a lot of dust and wax (higher order hydrocarbons). That’s OK if you are going to use them with an UPRIGHT stove as all the muck stays at the bottom – well, mostly, anyhow.
But do NOT use them with inverted canister stoves. The muck feeds into the O-rings and valves and filters and creates huge blockages and leaks.

Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

“G-works Gas Saver R1 Cartridge Exchanger Anodize Duralumin” is just a small fitting for canister to canister.  So, you could use up a canister with a small amount of fuel.  You put the donee canister in the freezer, the donor canister could be put into warm water – 110F or 120 F max, warm to the touch but not hot to the touch.

Then screw the fitting onto both canisters.  The fitting has two screw ports and one valve.  Donor on top.  Turn on the valve.  Wait for the butane to flow.  After maybe 30 seconds it stops.  If it didn’t all transfer close the valve, put the donor back in warm water for 1 minute.  Then repeat the fill process.  Maybe repeat this several times.  You can tell if there’s still fuel in the donor just by shaking.

When you’re done, unscrew fitting and weigh to make sure you didn’t overfill which could cause it to explode.  (okay, maybe a bit dramatic, I think the bottom would probably just pop outwards are maybe a seam would open and start leaking.)

The “SOLO MTN Butane Gas Refill Canister Filling Adapter” is the same, except for transferring from one of those butane cans intended for household stoves.  It has a fitting that you push onto the butane can and twist slightly which pushes the tabs out to lock into place.  Another fitting screws onto the canister.  There’s a valve on each.  There’s a braided hose connecting the two fittings.

When you’re done refilling there’ll be a small amount of fuel left in the hose, but if you keep both valves closed, that fuel will just stay there so you won’t waste that much the next time.  Unless the fuel slowly leaks out of the valves.

[Bob Moulder]

Keep in mind with the butane canisters for tabletop grills that there is a pick-up tube that is aligned with the notch in the flange that surrounds the nozzle. If you want to get all the butane out you have to tip the coupled supply and receiver canisters about 45° with that notch pointed down.

As far as determining how much fuel has been transferred, use a good digital scale to weigh the canister. A Primus 110g canister weighs 98.5g empty (without the plastic cap), so add 110g to that and you’re good to go.

This is actually a very easy, safe and quick process once you do it a few times.

 

[Jerry Adams]

Thanks, I’ll try that, there’s a small amount left in my butane can

amazon.com “12 Butane Fuel GasOne Canisters for Portable Camping Stoves” – $26 for 12 cans, 8 ounces, so that’s $2.20 per 8 ounces

[Bob Moulder]

They’re somewhat cheaper if you get them at a Korean grocery or other Asian grocery, or a local restaurant supply store.

Mine cost $6.50 per 4 cans. However, if you’re referring to this one with free shipping, that’s a very reasonable price.

Also beware of shipping costs. Sometimes you’ll see them advertised at very cheap prices (about $1 per can) but the special hazardous material shipping charge can be astronomical.

[Roger Caffin]

Also beware of shipping costs.

$12 for a carton of 12 canisters, plus $27 for the Hazmat shipping.

Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

that one from amazon was $26 for 12 cans, 8 ounces, free shipping

[Roger Caffin]

Ah – right.
Butane – free shipping. Propane – hazmat charges. Makes some sort of sense after all.

Cheers

 

[Jerry Adams]

Okay, I’ve just about beat this to death : )

I went to Korean grocery across from Home Depot in Beaverton (but I think there are many Korean groceries all over).  They didn’t understand English but eventually I got through to them:

On the left is the $4 cheap butane from Fred Meyers that they don’t sell anymore

On the right is the butane from the Korean grocery – $5 for 4 cans of 8 ounces

Since bulk isobutane costs about $0.20 for 8 ounces, I don’t think it really matters, they just use whatever they have and put some in the left canisters and charge more because that’s a smaller market and they can get away with it, and use the same fuel for the canister on the right and charge less because that market is more sensitive to price.  I theorize they also use the same fuel for more expensive Snow Peak, MSR, or whatever.  It’s all the same.  The only thing different is the label on the can.

The cheapest canisters I found were the $5.50 for 8 ounces Snow Peak at REI.  The Korean market canisters are $1.25, so you save $4.25.  If I did 5 of these canisters it would save $21.50 which would pay for the $20 fixture, and beyond that I will have $1.25 canisters.

If it ever gets cold here I’ll try both the Coleman and Max upright can fuel and see how low they’ll go and test my theory all fuel is the same.

[Bob Moulder]

N-butane won’t work well when it’s cold without external heat for the canister.

N-butane vaporization temp is 31°F (Isobutane is 11°F) but evaporative cooling is going to require a significantly higher ambient temperature in order to operate without any outside ‘help’ to warm it.

Either way, if you’ve been using commercial blends you will notice the absence of propane.

[Hikin’ Jim]

$1.25 for 8 oz (~220g)!  Outstanding price, Jerry. I used to get them on sale for $1.00 each, but that’s been a while.  Told you the Korean markets had the best deal on gas.  :)

There is a difference in the contents though.  Some companies print the percentages of each constituent (n-butane, isobutane, and propane) on the side of the canister.  Others print the percentages on their web sites.  I’m sure it varies some batch to batch, but unless the stove/gas companies are telling outright lies, I would assume that the percentages are reasonably close.

All of the major canister gas labels available in the US (Optimus, Snow Peak, Primus, MSR, Jetboil, Brunton, Olicamp, and GasOne) except Coleman/Camping Gaz are all actually made and filled by the same company, Taeyang Industrial Company, Ltd., of South Korea.  Look at the shapes of each of the canisters for the brands listed above.  Look at the mold imprints on the caps.  They’re all the same.

Your Max canister appears to be an exception, but I’ll bet it’s still made in South Korea.  I’ve never seen any Chinese made gas canisters in the US.  Coleman bought out Camping Gaz.  All Coleman backpacking canisters are made and filled in France.

Since these major labels (except Coleman) are all contracting with Taeyang to have their canisters made, I would think they would periodically sample them to make sure that they’re getting what they paid for.

With the cylindrical 100% n-butane canisters, you’re not going to get very good performance when the ambient temperature gets down to maybe 60F/15C or lower.  Canisters cool as you use them, and you’re quickly going to have a fall off in canister pressure as the canister chills from use.

Propane-isobutane mixes are the best available gas in the US market for backpacking (well unless you want to carry one of those heavy steel ~465g Coleman type 100% propane canisters and and adapter).  Jetboil, MSR, and Snow Peak are the brands that have such fuel  last I checked.  Optimus, and Primus contain at least some n-butane, and they will not do as well in colder weather.  As for Olicamp and GasOne, I’m not sure but they may also be isobutane-propane mixes.

HJ

[Hikin’ Jim]

Hmm.  Liberty Mountain, which is the distributer for Olicamp brand gas, lists the contents as 25% propane, 75% isobutane.  If that is correct, that would be the best winter gas available in the US.

HJ

http://www.libertymountain.com/products/5141/NTN15750/olicamp-fuel

[Bob Moulder]

On the right is the butane from the Korean grocery – $5 for 4 cans of 8 ounces

Darn, that’s a good price!

Once you learn to ‘roll your own’ you’ll never go back to paying full price. ;^)

And after your refilled canisters have been cycled a bunch of times and you suspect that the Lindal valves might be wearing out, there is a steady supply of once-used canisters in many trail head trash cans.

 

[Jerry Adams]

Yeah, n-butane doesn’t work at cold temperatures, a higher percentage of Isobutane and propane is better, some cans list the percentages, the percentages on some cans are better,…

Being a skeptical person, I question whether there’s really much difference between different brands besides the labels

Everything I see now is from Korea.  Maybe 10 years ago there were some Japanese.

I envision a huge factory with a huge tank of “butane”.  They fill all the different brands from the same huge tank.  “Naturally” the ratio of nbutane to isobutane is about 50:50 with some propane.

The coldest it’s been so far here in PDX is 47 F, where the Sterno brand upright canister fuel worked great.  Last winter, the Max screw top canister worked down to 28 F (but the contents were about 22 F due to evaporative cooling).

If global warming hasn’t totally screwed up my experimenting, it’ll get below freezing here some day and I’ll get a better test.  I can compare the Sterno and Max upright canister fuel.  Oh, I finally gave in and had to buy a MSR canister so I can compare that.

Complicating the experiment is that full canisters cool less than mostly empty canisters because they have less thermal mass, but I can control for that.

[Roger Caffin]

Being a skeptical person, I question whether there’s really much difference between different brands besides the labels

Oh, obviously our brand is so much better than the other brands …

But there are Filled-in-China versions which seem to contain a fair bit of dirt/dust and waxes. These are hell on inverted canister stoves.

Cheers

 

[Jerry Adams]

I have not seen Chinese canisters here, only Korean, not that I’ve done exhaustive search

This morning it was supposed to by 36 F, but it was 46 F, global warming still in affect.  Nothing much colder in the next 7 days.

[Author]

Posts