Cat hole technique

[Diane Pinkers]

For those more versed on LNT, if one is hiking in a forested area with lots of duff, is removing the duff, then digging a shallow hole with one’s heel proper 6 inch technique, if the top 4 inches replaced is duff? I don’t think it is, that’s awfully shallow, would animals be likely to dig that up?

Seems like one would move the duffle aside, digging a proper 6 inch cat hole, then replace both dirt and duffle to properly conceal the hole.

Thoughts?

[Dan]

6″ into the soil, IMO. You are trying to make it inconspicuous while also avoiding burying it too deep for rapid decomposition.

On a recent trip, I encountered two catholes that were too shallow, and to make things worse, they contained TP and were too close to established campsites.

[Diane Pinkers]

That’s what I thought, too. The above scenario is being touted by a fairly prominent member of the on-line backpacking community in a video, and I didn’t think it was great. I shall continue to bring a Trowel, even if he says you don’t need one.

[Todd T]

I’m no chemist, but poop-wise, I think the main thing is to put it in a zone where it’s well hydrated and well oxygenated.  I don’t know if the duff layer qualifies for that, though in my experience, it’s sort of a duff-dirt continuum rather than distinct layers.

Paper-wise, I’d think dirt keeps it more securely below the surface.  But I think peeing on it before covering it goes a long way toward stabilizing it until it can decompose.

[Jerry Adams]

I keep thinking about doing an experiment at some place I go frequently

Have several catholes.  One with just poop and paper.  Another one that I pee on.  Another one that I also stir.  Maybe another deeper.

Then go back three months later and compare.

[Terran]

Microbial activity would probably be best just under the duff with perhaps  a sprinkling of soil over it. For sanitation purposes, the deeper, the better. I think 6 to 8 inches is sort of the sweet spot. Paper decomposes best at home in my trash can.

[Diane Pinkers]

Yeah, I never put paper in, always pack it out, along with wipes.

[Bill Budney]

I’d like to see some test results for mycelium tablets in catholes. I’m not sure whether they sound great or gimmicky… it depends on how well they work.

[Jerry Adams]

I’ll have to add another cathole in my experiment, with mycelium tablets

And another with no paper

my guess will be little difference between all those, they all decompose after a few months

[Dan]

I suspect that the paper will last longer than you expect.

[Jerry Adams]

hmmm, I could do the experiment in my yard.  It’s not private so I would have to discreetly carry it from inside.

[Todd T]

Sounds like a worthy experiment, Jerry.  You should probably eat Mountain House for a few days before creating your test samples.

[Jerry Adams]

The last time I ate a mountain house, it turned into a congealed mass of cheese like stuff and I haven’t eaten any since

[jscott]

The yard experiment was done and reported on years ago on this site. It must be recoverable somehow. I can’t recall the results right now.

If you tend to camp in more isolated sites, or there’s acreage around with good soil for digging, that helps. Get far away from any campsite if you’re not in a sudden big hurry.

There also used to be a member here who sold excellent titanium cat trowels that weighed about an ounce. Mine is going strong after many years of use. Six inches is easy with this.

I bring a water bottle with me when pooping and then pee on the tp. and  top that off with a lot of water. It’s mush at that point. OR, I may carry it back and torch it a fire ring.

[Bill Budney]

I see a cat hole experiment in the archives: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/backyard-tp-degradation-experiment/#post-3404446

Gary Dunckel tested several different types of TP (including flushable baby wipes) in backyard cat holes. All were gone in a month (during Summer). Wet Ones wipes did not degrade much, even after five months (Winter and Spring). Gary did note that his lawn has many active worms. David Thomas pointed out that the season matters as well. Roleigh Martin linked the abstract of an article from the Journal of Environmental Management that points out that tampons resist degradation.

Roger posted a photo of using a webbing strap as a throne.

jscott: Were you thinking of Robert Kelly’s Big Dig trowels?

His web site is still up: http://www.qiwiz.net/trowels.html

Bogler Dig Dig trowels look like a replica.

 

[Jerry Adams]

“Gary Dunckel tested several different types of TP (including flushable baby wipes) in backyard cat holes. All were gone in a month (during Summer). Wet Ones wipes did not degrade much, even after five months (Winter and Spring). Gary did note that his lawn has many active worms. David Thomas pointed out that the season matters as well. Roleigh Martin linked the abstract of an article from the Journal of Environmental Management that points out that tampons resist degradation.”

That sounds like an AI summary of that post.  Are you an AI or a real person Bill? : )

I probably read that and there are bits of it remaining in my memory bank.  Maybe I don’t need to do the experiment.

But maybe the results would be different at a campsite in the mountains.

[jscott]

Yep, Big Dig trowels are the ones I had in mind!

Interesting that it was found that TP was “gone in a month”. I wonder if it was wetted out before burying, and how much. TP is a wood product, after all. It’s going home.

[Paul Wagner]

If you do trail work like I do, there no substitute for a nice full-sized shovel!

[jscott]

Jerry, it would be great if you did that experiment. You’re well versed in following scientific protocols. And you might end up on an episode of Freakenomics radio! Or the Gear Skeptic. (Is TP gear?) Or maybe your research will bear out Gary Dunckel’s findings and I can rest easy on a log well off into the forest after breakfast.

[Jerry Adams]

That’s pretty funny

I appreciate bill’s summary.  When someone posts a link, I like a brief summary, then, if I want to read more I can go to that link.

[Author]

Posts