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By the Numbers: the Search for a High-MVTR Waterproof Breathable Shell Jacket


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Home Forums Campfire Editor’s Roundtable By the Numbers: the Search for a High-MVTR Waterproof Breathable Shell Jacket

Viewing 20 posts - 76 through 95 (of 95 total)
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  • #3739117
    Woubeir (from Europe)
    BPL Member

    @woubeir

    Well, some 5 years after purchasing it, I met with one of their reps during a fair. To show the quality of the face fabrics they use, they had a microscope in their booth. Just for fun and because they had noticed I had my Sirrus-jacket with me, they put it under that microscope. Even to their surprise, the plain weave fabric looked like new and the ripstop fabric had some loose threads but still looked in good shape.

    Contamination might always be an issue but even just after cleaning it and applying an after market treatment, the problem can occur.

    About the change over time in chemistry of after market treatments, even a year or so after purchasing it, the problem did already occur. Because the original DWR was C8-based, I only used C8 after market treatments on it.

    #3754312
    Yiwei X
    BPL Member

    @yxu

    Hi,

    Great comparison and well done! Probably the most technical comparison I’ve read in a long time.
    Just wondering if you are planning to test out a few more jackets, especially the Black Diamond Stormline Stretch Rain Shell as I’m quite curious about how would the stretchability affects the breathability performace.

    Thanks

    #3754471
    Stephen Seeber
    BPL Member

    @crashedagain

    Hi Yiwei:

    Thank you for reading. I would expect that fabric stretch would impact MVTR performance.  To test this, I would have to create fixturing that would permit testing under stretch conditions.  Not difficult, I simply have not tried it.   I have done no testing on any BD.Dry garments.  If someone has one of these jackets and want to part with it for a few days, I would be happy to measure its MVTR performance-both relaxed and stretched.  In field use, I am not sure how relevant stretch would be to  MVTR, since the fabric would alternate between stretched and relaxed according to movement.  Just PM me to make arrangements  for testing if anyone who owns one of these is interested.

    #3761449
    Jonathan B
    BPL Member

    @jborduas

    Hi Stephen,

    Thank you for bringing data to an industry that is often too qualitative.

    Did you test the following polypropylene fabrics ?

    -Frogg Toggs
    -lifa infinity pro

    Also, what would be your recommendation for a light, water resistant (DWR) wind shell/jacket/shirt that is abrasion resistant with an high MVTR ?

    My goal is to protect my mid layer (Polartec Alpha Jacket – Senchi design) and base layer (Brynje Super Thermo) against branches, regulate my temperature by opening zippers, in an Above-tree line , very windy, high exertion scenario.

    #3761454
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Abrasion-resistant: I use medium-weight Taslan fabric for this. It withstands some fairly bad Australian burnt scrub and last for many years.

    Cheers

    #3761487
    Stephen Seeber
    BPL Member

    @crashedagain

    Hi Jonathan:

    I have not tested Frogg Toggs or Lifa Infinity Pro.  Neither company lists any performance data for their products that I could find.  The Frogg Toggs products tend to be inexpensive. The Lifa products seem to be very expensive.  Frogg Toggs have been commented on extensively on BPL.  Do a search.

    I don’t measure abrasion resistance.  I am not confident that any of the high MVTR windshirts I have tested would be very abrasion resistant. Also, all have relatively low HH so they are somewhat water resistant but not water proof.  I spend much of my time above tree line where abrasion resistance is not too important.

    Above MVTR of 3000, that I have tested are BD Alpine Start, Patagonia Houdini Air, Mountain Hardware Kore Preshell and OR Helium Wind Hoody.  Of these, all except OR Helium Wind Hoody have high (for windshirts) air permeability so as wind speed increases, you will get reduced protection.  The OR Helium Wind Hoody (2021) has very low air permeability and very high MVTR.  Of course, I don’t know anything about its abrasion resistance.

    #3761488
    Jonathan B
    BPL Member

    @jborduas

    Thank you Roger and Stephen for your comments.

    I think the brand K-way uses a thin nylon material similar to Taslan (from looking at online picture). I will try to test one in the coming week.

    Will also try to test the OR Helium Wind Hoodie soon, I prioritize function over form, but gotta say that hoodie looks real good.

    For rain protection, especially when freezing rain is a possibility, I am a silnylon poncho + rain skirt + gaiter user  and I am quite happy with this system.

    #3761510
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    I do not know, but I strongly suspect that the ‘thin nylon material’ from K-way bears little resemblance to genuine Taslan fabric. It gets technical, but Taslan is a far stronger air-textured material which can take a lot of abuse.

    See
    https://backpackinglight.com/myog_shell_top/ and
    https://backpackinglight.com/make_your_own_gear_trousers/ for details.

    However, finding Taslan clothing might be ‘difficult’.
    Cheers

    #3761514
    Jonathan B
    BPL Member

    @jborduas

    I’m into MYOG (yet). But I’m interesting in learning it.

    I found a few leads for Taslan/Supplex product:

    Seems Tilley Trek product seem

    to use a Supplex with 5% elastase.

    REI Sahara have some Supplex pants as well.

    Finally, Wintergreen Northern Wear seems to use Supplex for all their jacket/anorak. The Boundary Waters Hooded Windshirt ticks all my boxes, except for weight and price.

     

    #3761516
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    Supplex/Taslan is about 4 oz/yd2.  Not very water resistant.  Probably too heavy and not water resistant enough for a jacket.  Also not very water resistant because the threads are fairly large diameter.  Tight weave so it’s good for bug and sun protection.

    I’ve seen products that weren’t advertised as taslan or supplex that seem similar.  It feels sort of like cotton cloth.  Tight weave for bug and sun protection.  Doesn’t feel like slippery, plasticy, thin nylon.

    I make pants with supplex.  They last forever even if I rub against thorns and rocks.  I slit open on barbed wire once, but fortunately my leg was fine.

    Outdoor Wilderness Fabric, Seattle Fabric, Rainshed Fabric.  I’ve bought it from the Mill End Store if you’re in Portland.  I looked at Joanne’s, but I didn’t see anything similar.

    My base layer shirt is Supplex.  If it’s warm, that’s all I wear.

    #3761655
    Brett Peugh
    BPL Member

    @bpeugh

    Locale: Midwest

    I have the 2022 OR Helium Wind Hoody and can say that the material is slick and pretty strong since it is made of the Diamond Fuse technology.  I had the 2021 but the color dye of the fabric ran some.  I can say that I have not really noticed a difference between the two so the MTVR may be the same.  It does have those laser cut holes in the arm pits and a mesh Naploean chest pocket which does help also.  OR lists it as windproof.

     

    I also have the MH Kor Preshell.  This breathes well but as Stephen said a strong wind will make a slight breeze on the inside.  This is a thinner fabric but still has a good deal of strength to it.  It is not slick and you can see the weave just by looking at it.  I think there is a chance it could snag on something but I have not yet in the last year mainly using this around town. I can wear this with a cotton t-shirt in the office when the temp is around 68-72 without sweating.

     

    I also used to have a first gen OR Guardian Ascentshell jacket and I can say that was the most breathable jacket I ever had.  Checked all the boxes and I would have kept it but that outer storm flap started failing me more even though I added more bits of velcro to keep it down from blowing in the wind. OR finally makes an Ascentshell that has mesh pockets and pitzips, the Skytour, but $379 is more than I want to pay for a rainshell.

    #3761658
    Brett Peugh
    BPL Member

    @bpeugh

    Locale: Midwest

    That is an interesting design.  Does rain come in the snap on sleeves when ones arms are bent/lifted above a straight level?  Also the sleeves seem pretty short especially for a person like myself that has long arms.

    #3761660
    Jonathan B
    BPL Member

    @jborduas

    Brett, are you saying the AscentShell has a better MVTR than the Wind Hoodie ?

    Also, do we know the MVTR and CFM of Taslan? Tried to find it, but couldn’t.

    As for the Brella, that’s an interesting design. However, I’m not sure the snap on will protect against strong wind and I would still want a wind layer under it.

    #3761665
    Brett Peugh
    BPL Member

    @bpeugh

    Locale: Midwest

    Sorry, I meant the most breathable rain jacket.  I don’t have the MTVR nmbers in front of me.

    #3761680
    Jonathan B
    BPL Member

    @jborduas

    Stephen, do you know the MVTR and CFM of Taslan ? Roger and Jerry are making me very curious about that material.

    #3761750
    Stephen Seeber
    BPL Member

    @crashedagain

    Hi Jonathan:  I am afraid I have not tested any Taslan fabrics or garments.

    #3764006
    Bill Budney
    BPL Member

    @billb

    Locale: Central NYS

    Where would I go to get pit zips added to a Peak Dry Shell? Ideally I would like to send it to someone who has handled the fabric before. Not sure that I want to trust an expensive and fragile garment to someone who is new to the fabric.

    #3764142
    Stephen Seeber
    BPL Member

    @crashedagain

    I have had it done at Boulder Mountain Repair and Gear-Restore in Thornton, CO.  I like 20″ #3 waterproof zippers. If you search for Gore-tex repair on line, you can find more options.

    #3764146
    Bill Budney
    BPL Member

    @billb

    Locale: Central NYS

    Outstanding. Thank you (and thanks for all of the research that you do).

    #3765611
    Daron C
    BPL Member

    @dc655321

    Hi all. First post here and thought I would share that Sitka Vapor SD (as in ShakeDry) jackets are at about 1/2 price (now, $160) here. I got one out of curiousity, but I’m not sure I will keep it. Nice jacket though! I’m 5’11” 170 and the medium fits well with room for thin layers.

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