Baffled hooded down jackets?

All down jackets are baffled. Some are baffled with box baffles, which is is common in sleeping bags but not jackets.

I have an older Patagonia Fitz Roy that was box baffles and it is a great jacket, though for my tastes and needs a synthetic parka is preferable for the same trips and conditions. The new Patagonia Grade VII is also box-baffled and a wonderful jacket, if I were in the market for a down belay parka this would be at the top of my purchase list.

The new Patagonia fitz roy parka is also box baffled and I believe it has 8oz fill. Uses pertex quantum for the shell. Nice jacket.

Was contemplating buying one a while ago, but it wouldn’t get enough use since winters are relatively mild where I live. When it’s too cold for my 4oz fill down hoodie, I usually take a 3.5oz fill down sweater to layer underneath. Probably as warm as an equivalent 7.5oz fill box baffled jacket due to the extra material and little pockets of air caught in between the two jackets. Also probably warmer than a 7.5oz fill stitch through jacket would be. Obviously a bit heavier than a single jacket though, but works well for me.

I had a FF Front Point parka for many years and loved it.  The current model in med contains nearly 13oz of 850+ fill down.   Fabrics are burly if not bomber with total weight at 30oz.  Since this is BPL, the Nunatak Kobuk would be the closest in terms of mega fill and feather weight – similarly priced, 9.5oz of 900 fill down and total weight of 18.5oz.

Brett,

If wind or rain shell over down baffle transition point

If you wear a properly sized shell over your down jacket, you can save some cost and weight by using sewn through construction up to 9 oz of 800 fill.(-1F TN CC).

If not, the benefit transition occurs at a much lower 5 oz of 800 fill (21F TN CC)

Most manufactures provide down parkas with 800 fill weights up to 17 oz of fill (-40F TN CC)

Note: TN CC = Thermo Neutral Camp Chores Temperature in F

Very interesting Richard. Thanks for the link.

This agrees with my subjective experience on layering windshell+sewn through down jacket. It certainly adds some warmth. This is a possible argument for opting for down jackets which have a liner on the inside despite the extra weight, though I suppose your baselayer can fill this role if loose fitting.

Adding a windshell over  a box walled down garment adds warmth, my experience is that the more pronounced the garments loft between stitch lines the great the warmth added by the windshell.

The very best Antarctic and HA parkas are built this way [ an integrated wind shell layer sewn on] if they are intended to be used without a separate shell over them and even then the difference can be felt with additional windbreak layers

If the baffle is 25mm high and the average garment loft is 40mm the line of the baffle stitching is a relative cold spot

Adding an integrated windshell layer to my Nunatak Skaha is adding an extra $70- to $110- to my order but I do think the benefits outweigh the costs and extra weight

So let’s take the MB Mirage with its boxed bafffles and 5.3 oz. of 900 fill. (Very) expensive so worth it or not ?

if you assume half the weight is the fabric you could do it with 850 down and it would weigh about 5.45 ounces

how much would that 0.15 ounce weight savings cost?

Woubeir,

You said, “So let’s take the MB Mirage with its boxed bafffles and 5.3 oz. of 900 fill. (Very) expensive so worth it or not ?

I have lab tested a 2013 XL size of this garment which weighed 14.88 oz. The estimated insulation value, based on its specs and a similar garment regression, is 3.51 Iclo with a thermo-neutral camp chores temperature of 19F. The measured insulation value is 4.38 Iclo with a thermo-neutral camp chores temperature of 9F. The measured ratio of insulation to weight is better than any other similar garment I have tested. Combining that with the feature set and quality, my informed answer is “yes”.

If the selection criteria is the ratio of estimated insulation value to cost, then my answer is “no”.

Interesting. So does that mean that your estimated value usually is more conservative then your measured value ?

Woubier,

No, for most garments the values are substantially the same.

Is the estimated value then sometimes a lot better then the measured value ?

I have seen that from two US manufacturers.  One is no longer in business.  The other was discussed by me in the forums, shortly after my testing their garment. I am not going to repeat their names, now a few years later.

I’m attempting to summarize the performance of sewn-through vs. box baffled down garments from what I’ve gathered from this topic. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong. This is for a fill power of 800 and considering that both garments have the same fill weight.

1. Fill weight less than 5 oz

Sewn-through vs. box -> No difference

(Sewn-through + shell) vs. (box + shell) -> No difference

2. Fill weight between 5 oz and 9 oz

Sewn-through vs. box -> Box baffled garment is warmer

(Sewn-through + shell) vs. (box + shell) -> No difference

2. Fill weight greater than 9 oz

Sewn-through vs. box -> Box baffled garment is warmer

(Sewn-through + shell) vs. (box + shell) -> Box baffled garment is warmer

I’m confused by this topic where I think Richard is saying that sewn-through + shell is on par with box + shell only till 6 oz of fill weight. I need some clarity on this. Does this apply till 9 oz or 6 oz of fill weight?

Ben at Goosefeet ?

Richard Nisley clarified this over email. Thanks to Ken Larson for connecting me to Richard.

I did ask Richard permission to share what I’ve gathered from our email conversation. This is the summary –

1. Layering a shell over a box baffled jacket adds negligible warmth no matter the fill weight
2. Sewn-through+shell is equivalent to a box baffled jacket only up to 6 oz of down
3. The additional warmth provided by the shell (layered over a sewn-through) will get progressively less in the 6 to 9 oz range
4. Box baffled jacket gets progressively better in the 6 to 9 oz range
5. At 9 oz the jacket needs to be box baffled to optimize performance

Richard’s recommendation is to go for a box baffled jacket if you need more than 6 oz of down.

The seam crevices in sewn-through jackets make for a sealed air gap under a shell. This is what adds additional warmth. Box baffled jackets have a smooth surface, so this does not happen with them.