BA "Insulated" AXL mattress – not so much insulation

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I really liked the fact that I could replace my 16 oz. Thermarest Prolite mummy pad for a 10.6 oz.BA AXL insulated mummy that packed even smaller.

THEN I read the one, two and three star reviews on REI’s site and got schooled!

Seems the BA AXL “Insulated” is a COLD mattress despite a reflective mylar lining and a bit of Primaloft Silver insulation. Of all the negative comments about 90% were about being<i> cold. </i>

Very glad I looked at reviews in the bottom 3 levels of ratings. What a revelation.

So I told the nice lady at REI “Thanks, but I changed my mind.”

[Brad Rogers]

The Big Angnes Insulated Air Core had similar complaints; it was rated to 15* but people seemed to get cold around 40*.

I have used an Exped Downmat and a Thermarest X-Therm and both have been very warm. I expected to be disappointed by the X-Therm but have been quite toasty.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Yep, nobody ever complained about the warmth of any type of Thermarest mattress. All have been conservatively rated. The X-Therm surprised many when it first same out but it turned out to be a true cold weather mattress after all. Even my Prolite does OK in 15 F. temps in my solo tent but that’s it’s max low comfort, IMO.

** So maybe BA needs to look closely at how they can make their AXL insulated line (and all their other insulated lines) REALLY keep you warm. It’s poor performance like this that is hard to live down. Is Aerogel the answer??

[Katherine .]

One thing I’m wondering is about the construction. I forgot to take note of this when I was in the store, but is the “quilting” done with welds? Is the pad equivalent of sewn-thru down construction (vs baffles).

Yep, had the exact same reaction and have removed it from my wishlist for now. I’m in the market for a second pad because my son likes to use my Xlite. Thinking an Xtherm would be a more useful addition to my pad quiver.

[Matt Dirksen]

“All have been conservatively rated”

I disagree with this.

It really depends on the type of pad – regardless of company.

Don’t forget, it wasn’t all that long ago that sleeping pads weren’t even “rated” at all!

While the X-therm pads tend to receive favorable ratings and reviews for cold weather use, the X-Lite pads gets numerous complaints about being “too cold”. Based on what I understand, T-rest’s testing methodology for establishing R-value most likely distorts the results for air mattresses, compared with ccf pads or insulated mattresses. This is my personal speculation based on what I know about their testing, and their lack of accounting for distortion caused by varying amounts of force applied to different parts of the pad.

In other words, their testing uses flat metal plates which evenly distribute force across the entire pad, thus creating consistent and uniform thickness in the pad. While this might make it easier for them to calculate an R value, this system does not compensate for the huge pad thickness differential created when a person actually sleeps on a pad. The heaviest parts of us compress the pad 2-3x more than the lightest parts of us. Because of all this compression (like under our hips, knees, and shoulders if we are a side-sleeper), we have significantly reduced the R value between us and the ground, based on T-Rest’s “measured value”.  Conversely, the thickest parts of the pad are are now parts of the pad we aren’t even touching. Side sleepers beware: the listed R-values are NOT accurate, imho.

(Roger Caffin wrote a great piece on sleeping pads, back in 2011. Perhaps it’s due for an update, but the fundamentals are still the same. While they’ve been talking about it for years, the industry still hasn’t changed their ways.)

 

[Paul S.]

It’s uncommon for people to try to push their sleeping bag/quilts beyond their temp rating.  It’s usually a onetime mistake that you swear never to repeat (been there myself).

It’s very common for people to use under-rated pads to save weight since IMO it’s a harder concept to grasp that you need insulation from the ground and not just from the cold air.  If you look at the R Rating section from Enlightened Equipment you’ll note that R3 = 35F so an Xlite would be pushed to its limit at freezing.  Any how many times have you pushed your quilt/bag to its limit and been cold?  Better to have a buffer unless you are a hot sleeping.

Without an R Rating the AXL ratings are just marketing.  At least for bags/quilts we can measure the weight of the insulation to accurately compare different manufacturer ratings.

[David Wiese]

Just chiming in with my own anecdotal experience. I had to return the insulated AXL after a very, very cold night in the upper 30s. It was nowhere near the stated 15deg lower limit. Everywhere my body was making contact with the pad was uncomfortably cold.

Got an Xtherm and have been very pleased. (Still looking for a long/not wide Xtherm 77″x20″ if anyone is selling!)

[Eugene Hollingsworth]

I can feel the cold though my BA Q Core R5 insulated pad at 30 deg f, and well frozen ground, so added a old thin army surplus green pad on top.

For reference, I use a hykeandbike 15 deg bag, thermal fleece top and bottoms.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Amen th the comment that R ratings for theBA AXL “are just marketing”. BA needs to learn it is getting a horrible rep for their mattresses “thermal failures.”

So we can say BA’s mattresses are “thermally challenged”, right? ;o)

[Dena Kelley]

I have the BA Q-Core SL and I will state that is a cold pad. I pretty much have come to the conclusion that all of them are cold if they are air filled. I do want to try the Downmat since I can see how that one might be different, but my system involves the air mattress for the comfort and I top it with a z-rest for warmth. I do not sleep if I don’t bring the z-rest to keep me warm.

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

I have a little fascination with sleeping pads and water filters so I have a few. I have a trust problems with the pure air pads, but I am trying to get over that. Mentally, I prefer self inflating foam or closed cell or a combo. That said , here is my break down and realize I have not used the Neo Air (but my son does)

Down Mat – Pretty true to rating -15 F

Down Mat UL – Pretty true , slept on a quilt to -5 F

Syn Mat UL – Pretty true ~20F

BA AXL insulated – Seems a bit coldish near freezing , but very comfortable. Noisy, but much less than Neo

Older BA Mat — Not fair to eval , I have not used it for 7 – 8 years but it did seem cold ish as well

Comfort, all pretty similar , I do like AXL and larger Down Mat because my arms don’t fall off the sides .

 

 

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Kevin, thanks for the comparison on so many mats. You’ve had a few more than I have and some of the ones I’m interested in.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I have finally (I hope) found my “ideal” 3 season insulated air mattress, an REI Insulated FLASH mattress.

It has an R 3.7 rating which should, using my overstuffed WM Megalite bag and warm long johns, be good to about 10 F. The Regular length mummy shape lists at 15 oz.

I’ll wait for an REI 20% off sale and get it along with REI’s small pump (& pillow) at 2.7 oz.

I tried it at my local REI and it’s very comfortable compared to my TR Prolite.

Yeah there are several reports of weld leaks but an REI rep told me if it ever leaked at a weld REI would always stand behind it as it would be seen as a “manufacturing defect”. Sounds good to me. However leaks elsewhere are my problem after one year.

I view the weld leak reports with some trepidation but REI sells thousands of these FLASH mats and some will leak, it’s a given with most mattresses.

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