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Arcteryx Proton FL Active Insulation User Review -on going updates


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Home Forums Gear Forums Gear (General) Arcteryx Proton FL Active Insulation User Review -on going updates

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  • #3587036
    Hanz B
    BPL Member

    @tundra-thrasher-ouch-man-2

    <span class=”im”>First Post: Preliminary pictures and day one remarks</span>
    <div>The Proton FL arrived today and I immediately ran around outside in a single baselayer and this jacket with my dog working up a little sweat. Temps 38-44F.</div>
    <div></div>
    <div>This is not a performance or durability review yet, and it may never be. It is not sanctioned by bpl or arcteryx. The item was purchased on members sale at REI. I did stop by the arcteryx store in Chicago to ask more questions and get comparisons on what they felt it’s breath-ability was compared to other pieces, most notably the atom SL and Proton LT…They said it’s more breathable than both. I asked why the didn’t just use less of the proton’s continuous coreloft, they said it would be as breathable.</div>
    <div></div>
    <div>Why I purchased: ive been looking at and trying out  “active insulation” for a while looking for that ideal piece that slurps up body moisture with some wind protection and maintain a a near 30-40 military spec cfm.  My limited experience with active insulation (though I am fascinated). I can directly compare this to brooks range alpha wear, an atom LT, an adidas agave alpha direct hoodie, and a kora yak wool – alpha direct zip up. Notably absent this list is a Patagonia nano air or nano air light which i do not own.</div>
    <div></div>
    <div>What Arcteryx claims: “The Proton FL Hoody balances air permeability and thermal protection during summer alpine and rock climbing, giving comfort over a wide range of temperatures, conditions and output levels. The Fortius™ Air 20 fabric has <u>light</u> wind resistance and air permeability, while Octa® Loft breathable insulation maintains a comfortable micro climate. A low profile, fitted, adjustable hood is uninsulated to fit well under a helmet but still give wind protection. Featured with two zippered chest pockets and two zippered hand warmer pockets. Weight: 320 g / 11.3 oz. Fit: Trim fit, Hip Length, Centre back length: 77 cm / 30.4 in</div>
    <div></div>
    <div>My take:</div>
    <div></div>
    <div>Fit: I previously purchased arcteryx medium in atom LT and My shell Beta LT when I was 165ibs 5-11. I needed to buy the proton FL in a large to have ample easy arm movement after trying it on. There is no belly or girth compression with the large on my body frame. The bottom opens well to vent and the shock cord cinches closed just fine.</div>
    <div></div>
    <div>Real world breathability: tbd. Prelim I felt the the wind only ever so slightly with gusts. Which was refreshing compared to my atom LT and brooks range piece. not there are no pit zips or breather holes in this jacket .</div>
    <div></div>
    <div>- Insulation and pockets: below is a picture of this jackets insulation: Specifically, i believe it is their take / design to compete with polar tech alpha direct insulation. goal is to expose moisture to as much surface area as possible in a material that can use capillary action and air trapping together to move water vapors aware from your body at a fast rate. This requires some temperature or vapor pressure differential  between your skin and 1/4 inch away from your skin, as well breathability to remove re condensing water molecules on the outer material. Whats not clear to me in active insulation is how much is a capillary action and how much requires heat. My guess is a lot of both. What I find it really unique in the arcteryx proton fl is essentially the mesh side touching your body and active fiber side are one material, removing a barrier others have not tried. Once moisture travels across the mesh into the thousands of fibers, its now up to the breathability of the face nylon to release it. Now other manufactures included some sort of barrier between the active insulation and your skin (Addidas, mountain gear, brooks range), others no barrier (Rab), and yet others essentially a no see um mesh (Kora). The problem with direct contact is reduced durability Problem with a barrier is poorer moister wicking. The arcteryx turns the fabric around but maintains direct contact, and just perhaps will provide a balance between wicking and durability. Pockets: nice micro fleece facing the outside of your hands and expose octa-loft against the palms. upper pockets just nylon face material inside and out. they do fit an iphone Xr.</div>

    back of the octaloft layer that is directly against skin. very soft. there’s no barrier between this mesh and the fussy fibers.

    – hood: really nice extension of insulation through the neck then you are left with single layer of 20d face fabric for the clincher hood. One drawstring in the back. That neck insulation I was really like omg with the wind gusts and the sweat. It did pull sweat off my neck better than a buff.

    – zippers: right size at right places, making use of larger ykk on main zip. This is must have for me in snowy conditions. The other zippers are water tight appearing smaller zippers. There’s a new lighter zipper toggle as well. the problam ive had with past arteryx jackets is that the slide so nice that they also don’t stay locked up at the chin. This proton FL appears to have some stickiness to it iun the top 2 inches. not sure what that about but i dig it.


    <div>- Chest: surface material across the chest appears more resistant to wind. matte finish. Pockets are crossed  so you enter with your opposite hand, And zippers are located away from your chest strap.</div>
    <div></div>
    <div>
    <div></div>
    <div>- cincher cord and hem: soooo tiny are these parts. But I like the weight savings. I’ll watch for durability. On my atom LT now 4 years old, the first thing to wear was the shock cord. I imaging a lighter smaller shock cord may wear faster.  Regarding the hem: could’ve been designed slightly more resilient i have no durability test. My atom LT and beta LT  use a thicker ripstop nylon on the hem that lasts. The proton FL uses the face fabric here and I could see this wearing thin over time.</div>
    </div>
    <div></div>
    <div>- Cuffs: same great articulated arcteryx coffee I expect.</div>
    <div></div>
    <div>- Weight and stuffing: 12 oz /  341 grams on my scale, about 4 oz heavier than a wool baselayer or a 100wt fleece. Stuffing: much larger than a beer can, albeit I’m not fully compressing it. This is as large as a 100 wt fleece.</div>
    <div></div>
    <div></div>
    <div>- Length of back: there’s a clear bias butt overhang which I love! At least 4 inches here!</div>
    <div></div>
    <div></div>
    <div></div>
    <div>Thanks for reading this. Hope it helps as UL community investigates more of these active insulation. I will continue to update when i have something more meaningful to add.</div>

    #3611915
    Alex Fedorov
    Spectator

    @afedorov

    Thank you so much for such a detailed review!!

    #3611936
    Hanz B
    BPL Member

    @tundra-thrasher-ouch-man-2

    Sure thing. I still dig this jacket and have washed it twice. I noticed recently on the label it says double rinse. Not sure way but maybe the octoloft fibers hold onto suds. Anyway I still think this jacket crosses an amazing range of temperatures. Looking forward to isolating some active winter pursuits in it and writing more basic review data or use case scenario. It’s wearing very well thus far. And it is an excellent bike jacket as well with the lower back hem.

    #3611967
    Jeffs Eleven
    BPL Member

    @woodenwizard

    Locale: NePo

    I have a 1 layer Octa tee from Snow Peak. Its a nice layer for hiking in spring. I want the pants for camp pants but havent gotten them.

    #3611985
    Rob P
    BPL Member

    @rpjr

    Does this jacket have much stretch to it?  I know you indicated you had to go up a size in order to get adequate arm movement.  Thanks!

    #3632746
    Hanz B
    BPL Member

    @tundra-thrasher-ouch-man-2

    Yea it stretches, I wanted ample air between my base layer and the octaloft – as to avoid compressing the loft So I went up a size. Haven’t gotten out this winter too much on trail as I had hernia repairs but this is my go to jacket below 55 and above 32 in any active pursuit. It is performing better then anything I’ve tried so far at moving moisture off my chest and arms during snow shoeing, with a Patagonia thermal weight base layer +/- underneath.

    …and that really well placed neck and collar Insulation in the hood. Every time I wear it … just feels like the right design up there.

    #3632990
    Tjaard Breeuwer
    BPL Member

    @tjaard

    Locale: Minnesota, USA

    This seems like a great jacket.

    The hood design seems perfect, a full insulated hood, I’d want in an over the helmet style.

    I love chest pockets, , out of the way of waist belts, harnesses and legs, so excited to see two of them here, with the added benefit that the extra layer of fabric of the pockets adds extra wind resistance in the place I (everyone?) need it most.

    Add in what sounds like a better fit than the boxy OR and Pata options, and this sounds like a winner.

    #3632992
    Tjaard Breeuwer
    BPL Member

    @tjaard

    Locale: Minnesota, USA

    For those who want something even less warm, I have been liking the Pata Mission Peak Jacket.

    It’s an airpermeable shell, with a minimal fleece-mesh bonded to the front of body and sleeves. The fleece mesh is very thin, and very open, really just a bit thicker than a mesh base layer like Brynje,  much thinner and with way larger voids than Capilene Thermal.

    So, if you want something for active use like the Proton FL, but it’s still to warm, this can be a good option, removing all insulation from the back, and having far, far less insulation on the front.

    Fit is typical Pata: articulated and shaped, but very large in the torso.

    #3633006
    Hanz B
    BPL Member

    @tundra-thrasher-ouch-man-2

    Taajrd,

    I agree there’s a bunch of scenarios this jacket feels too warm in for sure.  having said that the proton FL excelled for me at:

    – low 30s ish mod active pursuit with only one base layer, no neck gear needed (snow shoeing)

    – low 40s in mod backpacking in the high 30s to 40s (like not strenuous) this would be too hot for going straight up a sky slope or alpine for most, but does a good enough job at letting air in if it’s not attic chill.

    – 40- 65 around town, in and out of car.

    Actually I really like the Patagonia thermal weight base layer out in the open with a Highly perm wind jacket down to layer on and off to the low 50s. That “thermal weight” I believe is brand – it does a better job of dissipating and pulling  the moisture off then the mid weight does.

    #3633043
    Tjaard Breeuwer
    BPL Member

    @tjaard

    Locale: Minnesota, USA

    @Hanz B,

    for sure I didn’t mean to imply that the Proton FL is too warm. The exact temps will depend on the person, but a lightweight insulation layer like that will be useful for many people.

    I was just offering a suggestion for the ‘next less warm’ option, especially since I don’t see the Peak Mission mentioned here much.

    I really value garments with zoned insulation/wind resistance, since my chest almost always gets colder than my back, and when it doesn’t, you can open the zipper on the front to cool down there.

    So I like the Proton FL for its chest pockets, adding wind resistance there, and the Peak Mission for it’s zoned insulation.

    I too love the Pata thermal weight baselayers, and agree it is the best baselayer I have tried for managing moisture. Unfortunately, for me, it is just to warm in anything above freezing or so.

     

    #3633229
    Paul S
    BPL Member

    @pula58

    I took a look at the Patagonia Mission Peak jacket:

    Patagonia changed their website. They no longer specify the fabric weights or total garment weight. Lame if ya ask me…

    #3633847
    Hanz B
    BPL Member

    @tundra-thrasher-ouch-man-2

    @Tjaard

    you got me thinking….

    I was messing around with my Patagonia air Capilene and the thermal weight under the proton FL in the 30s today (fast past walking with the dog in the snow).

    there’s something very ingesting going on here with the interaction between baselayers and active insulation imo.

    I feel warm in the thermal weight and get flashes of moisture but it dissipates extremely quickly. In the air I actually feel it hangs onto more moisture under the FL but also feel warmer initially. I’m starting to think the hydrophilic properties of the air capilene wool mixture actually might work against the octaloft’s ability to pull the water vapor out. I’m starting to think that the properties of base layer effect these active insulation’s more then other traditional insulation layers. Perhaps synthetics under active insulation’s add greater value and enhance there potential. Interestingly I almost always prefer a wool base layer under a down Parka. I think the  Patagonia thermal weight fabric pattern might be the best water distributing surface available – it’s like a nylon stocking with cubes attached. I’d love to see actual data on this though.


    @ryan
    I think you’ve got some experience with the proton FL as well. Do you have any input in what base layers appear to enhance function in the proton FL?

     

    #3634047
    Michael E
    BPL Member

    @michael-e

    Locale: SoCal

    @Hanz B

    I have the Capilene Air Crew and Marmot Neothermo hoody. The Neothermo is similar to the Thermal Weight in also being composed of Polartec Power Grid. Power Grid is bi-component fabric (similar to DriClime) and wicks via absorbing and transporting moisture to the outer surface where it can dry. The cap air being part Merino may mean it dries a bit slower, but it also wicks and relies a lot on how airy (permeable) the knit is thus allowing for more vapor loss.

    Do you think you just might have been warmer in the Cap Air and possibly generating more moisture as a result? Have you tried the cap air with other active insulation pieces besides the FL? Was their some breeze/ air movement, feel like the Cap Air works best in those conditions.

    I have used both as base layers with active pieces like my Strafe Alpha Direct, Atom SL, and others. Haven’t noticed a really significant difference between the power grid and cap air in terms of holding moisture.

    #3634048
    Hanz B
    BPL Member

    @tundra-thrasher-ouch-man-2

    @michael-e

    I took a look at the neothermo. It looks very different in terms of the ratio of the grid the touches your body vs the spaces between that don’t. The pat thermal weight is almost the opposite of that – when you wear it skin tight it’s mostly spaces and very minimal grid touching your skin. That’s probably what I’m noticing? Better capillary action perhaps.

    though I’m still suspicious if hydrophilic wool blends work against synthetic insulations…

    my other active insulation’s are too warm to wear either the air or the thermal weight under so haven’t really tested.

    interested thoughts Michael

    #3634068
    Michael E
    BPL Member

    @michael-e

    Locale: SoCal

    I took a look at the neothermo. It looks very different in terms of the ratio of the grid the touches your body vs the spaces between that don’t. The pat thermal weight is almost the opposite of that – when you wear it skin tight it’s mostly spaces and very minimal grid touching your skin. That’s probably what I’m noticing? Better capillary action perhaps.

    The larger channel width makes it bit more air permeable than Neothermo, but would think it wicks in the same way as other Power Grid patterns.  “This grid construction enhances both wicking efficiency and breathability by generating channels of targeted touch points that absorb and diffuse moisture vapor for faster evaporation.”

    Maybe good test would be to wear Cap Air and Thermal Weight alone indoors at same temp and do same exercise and see which retains more moisture and dries faster. Merino fibers absorb more moisture than poly so would not be surprised if it felt wetter/dried bit slower. Another thought, people vary in terms of comfort range/metabolic rate. I was wearing the Cap Air today with Adahy fleece as outer. Partly sunny and 59 F, kept well regulated, minimal sweat. Little just under arms, but dried quick. My thought is you might find a difference in performance between the Cap Air and Thermal regardless of FL.

     

    #3634077
    Hanz B
    BPL Member

    @tundra-thrasher-ouch-man-2

    So true. So true. I actually find the cap air by itself the more comfortable garment. I should do that test indoors controlled you’re right.

    #3634236
    Michael E
    BPL Member

    @michael-e

    Locale: SoCal

    Maybe Octa Loft works differently than other breathable active insulation like Alpha Direct? I almost got the Proton FL last year when it was steeply discounted at REI. I tried on in store and found the fit a bit off, short in front and little tight in shoulder. Also found it hard to justify as I already had Atom SL and Marmot Alpha 60 that would cover similar use cases. Liked those soft lined hand warmer pockets on FL, similar to pockets on my Atom LT.

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