any 2p tent better than hubba hubba?

Here is a highly biased suggestion but maybe worth having a look.

Tarptent Bowfin 2.

Freestanding

30d silnylon

3000mm waterhead

48 oz

you can get it with the semi solid inner for better wind protection

however you can still get plenty of air flow if you want it.

https://www.tarptent.com/bowfin2.html

franco@tarptent

FWIW I used a BA copper spur for about 90 days in a dusty environment and the zippers failed.  I have Hubba Hubba NX now, but would expect similar zipper longevity.  If you plan to use the tent for two years straight then it is likely that any tent with a #3 coil zipper will have problems at some point.  I personally found the hubba hubba nx to have higher build quality than the BA tent (and I’ve not had any trouble with the waterproofness of the fly yet).  I know nothing about Nemo, but it would surprise me if they are wildly different.  I guess what I am saying is that 700 nights in a tent is well beyond what most tents are realistically built for without replacing zippers, recoating fabrics, replacing poles, etc.  I would venture to say that this will be especially true of UL tents.  So just make sure your expectations are calibrated appropriately.

You’re right. I had the idea that it would have been easier. I still didn’t get used to the fact that nowadays things are not made to last for generations :)

But I didn’t expect the fly and pole to fail after only one month. Yes, of daily use, but still one month.

Anyway…

I still can’t an alternative with more waterproof and possibly more resistant materials, and not all Mesh like the Nemo Galaxy…

Franco, can the bowfin2 be mounted starting from the fly, so that i can mount the interior from below the fly, which is great when it’s raining? And is there a footprint available? Is it really freestanding? The hubba hubba is 100% freestanding BUT you need needles to tense the vestibules.

Anyway I’m sending you a PM.

I’d appreciate if somebody could name some more alternatives. :)

On the top of my mind I’ve thought of the following 2p freestanding tents:
– Exped Venus or Orion UL
– Helsport Reinsfjell Superlight 2
– Hilleberg Rogen or Niak
– Fjallraven Abisko Dome or View

I don’t have any experience with these, but they might be worth a look. Most are a bit heavier than the hubba hubba nx :)

Ugo

Yes the Bowfin is an integral pitch tent.

So you can set fly and inner up together or just the fly if you like and then attach the inner.

The Bowfin is freestanding apart from the vestibules, as it is with the Hubba.

i have a few of this mentioned here. the bowfin 1 and it is a great tent, certainly more robust than the mainstream ultralight alternatives. I also like the fact it pitches outer first, and is mostly freestanding.

The nemo hornet 2 is great, but definitely more delicate. I’d have reservations planning on using it for a year or two. It’s probably got lighter material than your msr.

The rogen is a very good tent for anything but heavy snow – and has two doors – you didn’t mention if it was just you.

The Niak would be the sweet spot for me for a one person palace though. Super strong, light, exceptionally well made and reasonably light. Sectionhiker has a good review of it.

Replaced the Hubba Hubba NX with a Niak for the ease of set up and much more security in the mountains here in New Zealand. Pretty much the same weight but much more robust for the rain and strong winds we can get at any time.

I like the Big Agnes design feature of having the inner wall hang down from the center pole and then having the fly pitch over that same center pole. It really helps keep separation between the inner and the outer walls. I also like having a partial fabric wall on the inner, like Franco has on the Bowfin, to help keep out wind. But the zippers on the BA tents are tiny and always eventually fail. This last bit has actually become a gripe for me–a larger zipper is really worth the extra ounce or two of weight imo.

The Bowfin certainly seems to have a lot of headroom and is wider than it looks–plus the design seems rainproof.

Ugo, where will you be hiking? A desert environment will have different demands that the Scottish highlands, for example.

After one month use, there is a fracture in one pole, and water comes through the rainfly from some points of the seam.

If Hubba Hubba broke on you, likely there’s no hope :) Unless MSR majorly screwed something up recently, the Hubba Hubba is a bomber tent. MSR practically invented modern tents, I think (“hubs” hence “hubba”). The Hubba Hubba has been completely waterproof (PU fabric), has two vestibules and is a palace for one person. It’s an honest 2-person tent with no compromises. Easiest tent to setup too. The only issue with it, it is heavyish.

BTW, MSR would normally replace cracked/broken poles and has been known for exemplary repairs service (well, until recently, when they refused to replace a 3 year old fly, where the PU fabric degraded and became sticky).

Caveat: I have not looked at MSR tents recently.

P.S. With the footprint, the goal is to protect the floor from the damage, not water. The floor is 100% waterproof. If the footprint is larger, it will collect water in rain, hence it’s cut to only reach corners and be hidden otherwise. If you don’t like it, I’d get a piece of cheap tarp ($3 at Walmart) and cut it to the size you like.

The Hubba came out in 2004.

Bill Moss ( Moss tents) had the Pop tent , with an apex hub, in 1955.

Pop tent hub :

Bob Swanson (Walrus) designed the Rapid Hub , very much like the one used today, I think in 1984.

A Walrus design :

MSR merged (under REI ownership) with the  Moss , Walrus and Armadillo  brands in 2000.

I have never understood the entire Hubba class of tents. Compared with equally priced shelters from Tarptent, SMD and others, they seem to offer less room, less air and more weight for (at best) roughly the same stability and weather-proofness. Imo, if you need more stability than offered by modern UL shelters, you’ll be looking at something somewhat heavier than a Hubba (or its competitors). If you don’t… you just don’t. Personally, I view the Hubba category as an attempt to cover the middle ground between, say, a lighter Tarptent and a Hilleberg xyz. Except that in real life,  I don’t see all that much middle ground to cover.

Interesting the input about footprint, thanks.

I was indeed thinking of making a custom to cover also vestibule area so my gear don’t lay on wet ground. I’ll pay attention that it doesn’t get so big to be exposed to rain.

I was looking to the polycryo offered by GG.

The problem would be that I’d need two pieces and there will be an overlapping under the floor. Is it bad?

Can anybody say what justifies the price of Hilleberg. I’m not saying they’re not worth the price. I’m asking why are they.

I’m sure that the presence of Franco is no problem to be honest about TT.

I’m not an expert so I may be missing lot of details, but, TT tents (particularly bowfin2 and scarp2) are bigger and lighter than those two Hilleberg, and (particularly the scarp2) don’t seem to be less stable.

They are 5000hh fly and 3000 floor instead of 12000 and 5000, ok. But apart for that, what am I missing with a TT which could make me wish to spend more than the double in a Hilleberg?

About where I’ll hike, I would have answered I don’t know, because I’ve no idea where life will bring me.

I’ve left my job, I’ve got no house, no family, no properties but few savings, my backpack, and a few more things left by a friend in EU.

I’m looking for myself (a mirror is not enough) and for my place in this planet and society.

And I’ve no idea how long that will take.

Anyway, considering that apparently no tent is made to last years, I can tell I’ll be one year between Australia and New Zealand, to learn Permaculture.

Later, no idea.

Ugo7, while no tent lasts forever, you could extend the life of your tent by:

1) Not leaving it up unnecessarily in sunshine to avoid UV damage

2) Using a groundsheet made of a durable but cheaper material that you can replace, which will be cheaper than replacing the tent. Tyvek, Polycro, Silnylon

3) Keeping it clean as possible

4) Perhaps investing in an inexpensive tarp material you can throw over the tent if you will have it up a while in sunshine

Best of luck in your travels, studies and learnings.

I have never understood the entire Hubba class of tents.

I have not tried the current MSR tents (Hubba NX, etc), so I’ll speak for the old schoold Hubba 2p, 3p. These were standard no compromise backpacking tents and some of the best in that class quality and design wise. Essentially, if you wanted the best 3-season tent you could get at REI or your local mountaineering store, you’d get a MSR. I’d be very hesitant to recommend somebody who is new, any of the smaller vendor tents.

These days I guess I am not sure anymore. The Hubba NX seems to be very light, but that probably means some compromises in materials.

***

For the original poster, my partner was using a Nemo tent on a recent trip. From its appearance, Nemo still has ways to go with tents.

If an MSR tent fell apart on you, you’ll have much harder time with ultralight products.

Same for non-freestanding tents; the Hubba is comparatively a no-brainer to set up. Lots of space too, even for two people.

Ugo – not really much between a Tarptent and a Hilleberg. Gains are not proportionate to how much more you will spend. TT makes a great product you can have confidence in.

1. Ok, I must say, maybe because of this place, maybe because of one month hardcore walking with +/- 15kg on my back, but I’m starting to abandon the idea of a 2P tent “just in case, you never know whom you’ll meet on the way”, and I’m finding myself looking at 1 or 1+P tents with a “who cares, now it’s just me and my back, let’s feel free” attitude.

I’m heavily attracted by the 1.06kg weight (1.2 with footprint) of the Bowfin1, but I just can’t convince myself that this design can resist wind, and I don’t find much feedback online. I’ve read the thread here where Henry (hi, yes it’s me) says the bowfinn is more wind sturdy than momentum and rainbow, and explains that the arch is better tensed. I’m not sure to understand him well. Does he refer to wind hitting the short side? I’m sure the bowfinn is OK for that. My worry is wind hitting the long side, and finding just the vestibule’s stake as opponent (or one more stake tensing the same line).

I humbly admit my ignorance and I ask you: it’s that enough? Besides, not always is it possible to use stakes.

Experience here?

I’m therefore looking at the Scarp1, but it’s 1950 grams (with freestanding arches and footprint). That’s more than the hubba hubba nx (1.91kg, with footprint). Sturdier for sure and in this moment I’ll treasure that a lot. But I’d like to find something lighter (though not less sturdy) if I renounce to a 2p for a 1p tent.

I find myself looking at the Bowfin2 (1.6kg with footprint) each time I read the weight of Scarp1. But then again I think about wind.

I’ve been looking at your suggestions, Julie.

I’ll not comment on the money, I’m living of savings and I’m supposed to be careful but priority is to find the right tent. Anyway, they’re all kind of heavy.

The thread said 2p. So I change my question?

Any 1, 1+, or (if miracles exist) even 2p tent which is sturdier (wind, abrasion) and more waterproof than a hubba or hubba hubba nx, and lightweight?

@antonsolovyev

My point was that I can get just the same (or almost the same) stability for less weight with a Lunar Solo – also gaining much more space and more air than in a solo Hubba NX (and not really enduring all that much more user complexity). Beyond that, I probably want a real bunker tent… yes, there may be some in-between territory, but not all that much, imo.

On the other hand, the OP is referring to two-person tents… a slightly different ball game, as I must admit. But again, even if you thought a Duomid was less stable and weatherproof than a Hubba Hubba NX or its closest competitors, it wouldn’t be by much.

Also, of course, the OP may not even need a 2P tent. Plenty of solo UL shelters offer more space than solo ‘free-standing’ tents – enough perhaps. I have never lacked space in a Lunar Solo.

If I were the OP, I would choose between ‘real UL’ shelters and rather more robust tents, depending on the range of conditions I expected. I wouldn’t bother with the lightest big-brand free-standing tents.

@7030-ugo

You might check this site for more lightweight 1/2p. Examples: Terra Nova Superlite Voyager Tent, Solar photon Southern cross, Lightwave Raid g15, Sigma S10 or S20, Mountain Hardware Ghost, MSR Freelite?

It’s not easy finding the most suitable tent. It’s going to be a compromise either way so maybe you could list your priorities? What’s most important and what can you compromise on?

Martin, I’m actually more into 1 and 1+ now, as written in my last post.

But the Lunar Solo is not what I’m looking for.

Julie, setting priorities and accepting tradeoffs is not my strength, that’s why it’s difficult for me choosing something.

But I’ll try.

1. Lightweight: I’m going to live in that tent long time, it’s more a house than a shelter. That’s why I wanted a 2p, but the hubba hubba is just too much weight and volume in the backpack.
2. Weather resistant, specifically very waterproof and enough windsturdy. In one or more years of continuous traveling, it’s well possible that I’ll encounter different climates (although I don’t plan to go in extreme cold and snow).
3. Durable. It’s wonderful that some companies are ready to replace a tent over and over during warranty, but without having a Homebase it would be annoying. Better to reduce risks. So, no 10D stuff.
4. Freestanding. Even in this first month it has already happened twice that I had to camp and I’ve realised that the ground was so hard that staking was impossible. There were no stones either. I can accept a design where the vestibule’s need stakes, if the windsturdyness is not 100% depending on that (like it seems to be with the Bowfin, somebody correct me if I’m wrong). But if the complete structure depends on stakes, it’s game over.
5. Double Wall? I am not yet 100% clear about it. I just suppose that double wall can be more versatile and less annoying with dropping condensation.

That.

I was looking at the zpacks.I’ve 0 idea about DCF and it’s advantages and disadvantages compared to what other tents use.

And I’m not sure to understand, is it single wall? Looks like…

Thanks!

Ugo,

I can think of many tents that offer what you are looking for – if I get you right and weather parameters could include, say, wind/rain conditions as in the UK… but not snow. Trouble is, they are mostly heavier than a Hubba Hubba and certainly heavier than a solo Hubba NX. To stick with the example: If I understand the UK market correctly, a lot of people make do with less for a few days – but they don’t live in their tents for months on end. So their solutions probably wouldn’t work well for you.

One exception: Exped tents often do very well in wind tests and weigh very little for quite a bit of space. Here’s the lightest that might work: http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/tents/mira-i-hl#prettyPhoto

Another exception I had forgotten about: one of the Big Sky Chinook variants.

Yes I had a look at those, after that Julie named a pair.

Some are nice.

I’ve written to almost all producents of lightweight tents asking if they have something lightweight (around 1kg if 1p, 2kg if 2p), very waterproof, windsturdy, freestanding, double wall, which can be reliable and durable enough to be a house for a long term nomadic journey.

Depending on the answers, I’ll decide if getting a new tent or give MSR another chance.

Till now it’s not clear if I’ll get a refund from MSR. They seem more into replacement. I’ve asked if at least they can replace with a sturdier model.

I suppose that, going on the Australian spring in one week, I should find no rain. I can live with the hubba a little more and then sell it as almost new (it will be, but the inner tent).

Thank you all for the precious help!

Franco, thank you for introducing me to the interesting design of Henry and Erica. I find myself often thinking at the setup video of the Bowfin and liking it more and more.

I’d love to try it, but still not convinced enough by its windsturdyness in barely stakable situations.

Anybody feel free to suggest tents. Games are all but closed.

Ugo